Author Topic: pump building (Read 6673 times)

johnny · « **on:** April 12, 2006, 06:24:42 am »

We are trying to build a pump for my 1.6 TD with the following components:
- TDI hydraulic head with 10 mm plunger
- TDI camplate
- Housing of the original 1.6 TD pump
- 1.6 TD original pressurevalves (located in the hydraulic head)
- Pumptiming 1,0 - 1,1 mm
- 155 bar GTD injectors

Does anyone knows if this is going to work all together or does anyone have usefull tips.
I know there are some well experienced pumpbuilders on this forum an every kind of help would be welcome.

Baxter · « **Reply #1 on:** April 13, 2006, 04:39:18 pm »

Why use a camplate from a different style engine?
Im no Diesel tech but I was always under the impression that the cam plate was matched to the type of engine, going from IDI to TDI seems a little peculiar.
The ramp angles and the height, well, everything, IDI and TDI are completely different.
Open to being proved wrong though.

I've also got a spare 10mm head and rotor which I was going to throw at this GTD pump for my T3 along with GTD injectors.
Also, I was under the impression that 1.1mm lift was a little too much, and 1.0mm was a safe amount of lift.
Again, no expert, just what I have read on the forum.

turbotor · « **Reply #2 on:** April 14, 2006, 01:01:55 am »

Get the camplate from the new 1.9L idi pump...95mod I think.
Fits the tdi plunger and fits in the drive shaft.
3.3mm instead of 1.6L`2.2mm.

johnny · « **Reply #3 on:** April 14, 2006, 03:45:57 am »

The TDI camplate is even a little higher compared to the 1.9 IDI camplate and these are the parts we haven at the moment.

Quote

Mr Brick-Yard Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why use a camplate from a different style engine?

The TDI camplate has a much higher lift as the stock one, so more feul pressure.

Yesterday I did the governer mod on the original pump by shimming the intermediate spring but I wasn't really impressed by the improvement.
Feels stronger between 2700-4500 rpm but not really impressing.

johnny · « **Reply #4 on:** April 15, 2006, 05:00:15 am »

Does anyone know the difference between the TDI-camplate and the one from a 1.9 IDI ?

Baxter · « **Reply #5 on:** April 15, 2006, 06:09:17 am »

Quote

The TDI camplate has a much higher lift as the stock one, so more feul pressure.

Yeah, I appreciate that, but isn't the shape of the camplate designed for TDI applications and not IDI applications.

The TDI injectors are a totally different design, surely you keep TDI camplates for TDI's and IDI camplates for IDI's.

Again, just thinking out loud. Open to being proved wrong, just my perspective on things

QuickTD · « **Reply #6 on:** April 15, 2006, 06:29:45 am »

Quote from: "johnny"

Does anyone know the difference between the TDI-camplate and the one from a 1.9 IDI ?

The lift of the TDI and 1.9TD camplates are similar but the rate of lift is higher on the TDI camplate. DI diesels usually run best when all of the fuel is injected within 30-35º crankshaft angle. IDI engines run best with the fuel injected within 35-40º crankshaft. I would expect an IDI engine with a TDI camplate to be very noisy. I think Marc (redrotors) has tried this combination in the past and found the idle quality was very poor as well.

johnny · « **Reply #7 on:** April 15, 2006, 09:11:44 am »

This isn't a big problem is it, just the right pumptiming and everything is allright.

Or isn't it ?

QuickTD · « **Reply #8 on:** April 15, 2006, 06:15:41 pm »

Pump timing just changes the start of injection, it won't change the rate of injection. I would suggest using a 1.9TD camplate rather than the TDI camplate. It has the same lift as the TDI camplate but has the proper cam slope to work well with the IDI engine characteristics.

hillfolk'r · « **Reply #9 on:** April 15, 2006, 07:12:51 pm »

i dont even know what camplate is in mine,,but it has great power,,,84 jetta 1.6td pump,12mm plunger/head,and its on a mech tdi,,??,,ill agree,,maybe the "corect"pump formy setup would have better power,,its pretty good right now,eventually i think ill have giles build me a new one though,more suited for the tdi :wink:

therabbittree · « **Reply #10 on:** April 16, 2006, 06:26:29 am »

my old 1.6L td had a custom 4bt and 1.6Td pump hybrid with a 12mm plunger and DI cam plate it ran great awesome actually ..134hp at the wheels on a dyno..lots of fuel...
later
Deo

QuickTD · « **Reply #11 on:** April 16, 2006, 06:59:47 am »

The TDI camplate is more aggressive than the 4bt camplate, there are pictures here someplace... Could be why it's noisier and idle quality is worse?

therabbittree · « **Reply #12 on:** April 16, 2006, 07:19:04 am »

don't forget there are many different profiles of each cam plate style ie many idi, many di camplates..even 4bts di 's have different profiles etc...

hillfolk'r · « **Reply #13 on:** April 16, 2006, 08:58:26 am »

hmm,,,maybe i should open up my 4b pump i got for "spare ",and measure camplate,rabbittree?

perform a swap,,idont even know what i got in there right now,,it maybe a 4b camplate,,but gotta find out sooner or later

johnny · « **Reply #14 on:** April 18, 2006, 02:45:48 am »

I think it is best to compare the placing of the cams of the 1.6 and the tdi camplate. If the cams are placed at the same place there isn't any problem with the timing of injectors.

We are also considering to increase the openingpressure of the injectors to about 170-180 bar.

Author Topic: pump building (Read 6673 times)

Baxter

Baxter