Coolant flush and more on 81 rabbit pickup, need help resurrecting

[Heron]

So should I bother trying to get a reading of where it is at the current time or just scrap the idea and redo the settings after the new belt/tensioner is on and hope for the best?

I did just recheck and the lobes are up at 1, cam lock, ip lock and notch is perfectly lined up on the IP pulley/housing.
The only thing off is the TDC and it's only off by a quarter inch in the peep hole.

The current belt is riding a bit on the outside of the IP. I have not read yet in the Bentley but can it be shimmed out or something to align it better?

My only history with this truck running is I bought it in 1993 from a VW dealership that had just done extensive work on the motor. I probably drove it around town for 10 miles at that point then drove it from Georgia to CT where I thought it would be used by my dad. It never moved from his garage other than him starting it regularly.
It drove great going up there and had way more power than my current(at that time) pickup had(same truck, just with AC and a 5spd).
I now have the truck back in my garage and have just opened it up.
Timing belt on it still looks brand new and even the gasket on the valve cover looks brand new. I've got lots to do but I really don't want to screw anything up. It's been many years since I've turned a wrench on this setup.

[Heron]

Okay, so just forget about the timing...just get the belt and tensioner on and go from there.



Do I bother with the twist type timing belt tension guage(like the 210) or just set it by hand somewhere around 75 degrees rotation between the cam and the ip?
I've read 45 for diesels but then I've read where people that used the original tool felt like when it was at 13 they could twist it around 75 deg...? 
I don't want to screw up any intermediate shaft bearings or jump time...

[TylerDurden]

I would just reset the cam and take a reading on the IP.

You really don't even need to get an IP timing reading, you can just make scratch marks at the mounting bracket, if all you want is to ensure it goes back where it was.

PS
I use 45 on the twist for my belt tension.

[ORCoaster]

Heron,

I would forget about trying to get a pre timing check.  What does that matter.  When you put on the new belt and tensioner you will do it proper anyway.

You asked: 
The current belt is riding a bit on the outside of the IP. I have not read yet in the Bentley but can it be shimmed out or something to align it better?

Libby has a good description in another thread on why the current belt is not tracking on center.  It has to do with how the pulley on the IP is aligned and how to change that by adjusting the bolts that hold the bracket to the engine.  Don't try to shim the IP on the bracket.  That isn't how to fix it.

Good of you to keep an old VW running.  Best of luck, sounds close.

OH, don't go 75 degrees on the belt that is too loose, go 45.

[Heron]

I appreciate all the suggestions. I'm moving forward today with cleaning out the cooling system, installing new pump, housing, tstat after I get the belt on and tensioned.
I'll search for an IP alignment thread by Libby.

[ORCoaster]

Read early on in the post here:

http://vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php/topic,36845.msg345325.html#msg345325

[Heron]

I'll read that post, TY

I've got 2 questions:

1. Tensioner will not slide off, I'm assuming I need to jack the engine? But do I have to pull the mm bolt? I'm thinking not.

2. The intermediate pulley does not spin easy? Should it be replaced or do I have a deeper issue?

[ORCoaster]

Tensioner stud is into the head.  I can remove the nut then remove the stud that goes into the head.  I don't think you need to have the engine loose or on a jack.  It is a tight fit.

2. This sounds bad.  Bearings may be gone or the back end drives the oil pump too.  So depends on how difficult you are talking about spinning that pulley.  With it doing work turning the oil pump I would venture some resistance there but i wouldn't think it would be much.  For sure the pulley isn't going to spin like it was just there to take up travel of the belt. 

[Heron]

Tensioner stud is into the head.  I can remove the nut then remove the stud that goes into the head.  I don't think you need to have the engine loose or on a jack.  It is a tight fit.

2. This sounds bad.  Bearings may be gone or the back end drives the oil pump too.  So depends on how difficult you are talking about spinning that pulley.  With it doing work turning the oil pump I would venture some resistance there but i wouldn't think it would be much.  For sure the pulley isn't going to spin like it was just there to take up travel of the belt.

I applied a tiny bit of force up under the mtr mount and it came right off..

After pulling the intermediate pulley off and reinstalling it after the water pump it does not seem as bad. It definitely has some resistance but I think it's just the pump. I need to heat the motor up, run some cleaner in it and get the 26 y/o oil out of it..

Is there one place I can find torque values for intermediate, cam etc...?   

I'm going to wait in the aligning the ip as I may have to reseal it but cannot tell until I get it running.  Is there a favorite pump re-seal link in case I need it?

[RunninWild]

Most people recommend only using oem Bosch seals. I'm not sure where to get them but they should be fairly easy to find if you play with google.

The bentley manual is good as it has information on basically everything on the car. That being said I dont have one and I typically find my torque values with google by searching something along the lines of "Vw diesel cam bolt torque spec". You can usually find a few threads discussing the values on different forums and get confirmation of whatever you find.

[Heron]

I applied a tiny bit of force up under the mtr mount and it came right off..

this is referring to to the timing tensioner? with belt still on? if belt is still on the lip of tensioner can make it hard, or impossible to get off, why, looking at it did/do you have some type of problem so that the motor mount is hindering this, seems to me you have at least one or more problems you need to trace down, first. hard to tell in the 3rd person.

After pulling the intermediate pulley off and reinstalling it after the water pump it does not seem as bad. It definitely has some resistance but I think it's just the pump. I need to heat the motor up, run some cleaner in it and get the 26 y/o oil out of it..

Is there one place I can find torque values for intermediate, cam etc...?   

first the im shaft, there should be NO, almost NO resistance for it to spin. if there is you need to find it, correct it, for one you may need a new oil pump, can pull it, give it a visual, and measure it, lube it, spin it, and feel if its ok, other thing you also have a vacuum pump hooking up from im shaft(thats the intermediate shaft) to oil pump, pull this, check, it may be your resistance, may need a new one anyway, what do i know, its you car, you should know its condition, another you may want to pull im shaft again, and take a good look in there, and at shaft. nows the time to get it correct, it should pay off if you can straighten it out.

there are a couple of posts referring to timing procedure and proper, updated, i might say, torque of bolts. use updated material, youll find them in this forum, for old idi.

going back to what as i recall was your original post, or one of them, to start timing procedure, first turn crank to #1 TDC, 1st the cam will line up @#1, and pump should be @#1 as well, now refer to correct timing procedure, and use the manual(shop) for references as well.

The tensioner would not slide off entirely, hitting the side of the chasis. I merely put a block and lightly jacked up on the mount and it slid right off.   BTW; No belt on when I did this.

On the intermediate shaft;  So hard to tell, there is resistance but without lots of experience with these motors it's hard to tell. I can hear the vacuum pump, "pumping" when I spin it. I can turn it but in no way does it free spin(which I didn't expect), but after learning what it all does I think the resistance is realistic given it supplies power to the oil pump and the vacuum pump.
Not sure how to yet but will look further at the B to see how to check out the oil pump. I plan on resealing the oil pan once I get her hot and running and can drain the old oil out. I'll check the pump at that point. As I said before the truck ran great, no noise, belt nor pulley noise, nothing. The belt I took off looked brand new although the tensioner, water pump and Tstat all looked to be original.(135K original)
I received my counterhold device so I can now loosen the timing gear and the tighten up the IM pulley so hopefully on Tuesday I'll have the timing belt on, tensioned and will get the pump timed. 
I still have lots to do but everything going as planned  
The truck really looks rough, my wife thinks I'm nuts working on it but some people just don't get it..I also have a 55 AC bulldozer out back needing to have the tracks broken down and the final drive seals replaced. This VW is a cake walk compared to trying to break down that old iron. Just wish there was money growing on trees and more hours in the day.

[RunninWild]

If the oil pump is primed the im shaft will definitely have resistance. After changing my pump and bearings in the block I primed the im shaft with a cordless drill and it definitely grabbed the drill pretty hard when it finally got pressure. as long as its spinning and doesnt feel excessively hard to spin I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[Heron]

Yikes, got bigger problems now

Fuel seems to be leaking from the pulley side of the ip.

I think the "new" timing belt that was on there was too tight to begin with. I only put about 1200 miles on the truck after the timing belt and head was done and then it sat parked since 93

The pump does not seem wet anywhere else but I noticed fuel on the bottom lip of the ip pulley.

Does the pump have to be removed or can I replace the seal with the pump in place?

I've done some searching and found some say to reseal everything and others say to not do it yourself... and others say just replace the "easy" seals and go from there...?

I was planning on putting the new timing belt and all on today but I know I have to sort out this leak first... 

What is the common designation for these pumps so if I call a local Bosch supplier I can get the right parts? TY!

[RunninWild]

https://www.google.ca/search?q=bosch+ve+injection+pump+seal+kit&oq=bosch+ve+injection+pump+seal+kit&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.11395j0j4&client=ms-android-bell-ca&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

[Heron]

https://www.google.ca/search?q=bosch+ve+injection+pump+seal+kit&oq=bosch+ve+injection+pump+seal+kit&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.11395j0j4&client=ms-android-bell-ca&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Yes tried that but still not clear...

Is there a "go to" guide that people have found on this forum that is the most proven for re-sealing the pumps?

I can clearly see the leak is out under the pulley, so is it the main seal? Prob so b/c the timing belt was very tight...dealer did it 1200 miles and 23 years ago.

Is there a person on this forum that people have used to do the re-seal? It may not pay if I screw it up..?

Do I need part number off pump to get seal kit or is there a known kit everyone uses?