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Coolant flush and more on 81 rabbit pickup, need help resurrecting
by
Heron
on 15 Dec, 2016 16:30
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Hoping to get this done over some time off this next week:
Need to replace timing belt, water pump, all coolant hoses and flush this truck out. It has been sitting in a garage since 93 and I'm not certain if the coolant had been changed before that...
Any suggestions as to a link or something that can guide me in finding the best way to flush the entire system? Not sure if putting a "T" in the heater core line would work and I'm not so sure I really want tap water in the system. I'm planning on drilling a small hole in the Tstat as I remember doing that on the pu I drove back in the early 90's.
The truck runs perfectly in fact the timing belt was replaced in 93 and it still looks like new. The engine was gone thru at a dealership, I know as it was purchased due to a customer not paying the bill...I paid it at the dealership and got the truck. Best running 1.6 I ever drove, I have driven several over the last 30years.
I do have a Bentley and another manual. I've just acquired the timing belt tools I'll need(ip lock, cam lock, dial indicator, belt tensioner) but I'm not sure on the timing belt tensioner guage tool. I ordered one off ebay that looks like the VW tool. I remember the belt needs to flex between 45 and 90 degrees but that is totally subjective.
I do have the older 6pt crankbolt on this truck but cannot find a newerer 12pt. I read somewhere I should replace it..?
The red charging light is staying on and the alternator checks out. I'll be cleaning up the grounds first. Any other ideas would be helpful.
Rough to look at but no rust on the towers or anything substantial underneath(other than exhaust). The lower control arms are pretty rusty.
Should I just replace them?
In addition I'll be replacing all fluids, rear shocks, fr pads, e brake cables, thermoswitch on radiator, starter.
Already cleaned out all metal fuel lines, replaced all others, had the tank dipped and painted the outside.
I appreciate any input on anything that has been found out since the early 90's on this truck, for instance would it be better to run synthetic rotella in it like I do in my Duramax?
Thanks in advance!
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#1
by
RunninWild
on 15 Dec, 2016 18:00
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For flushing it I usually just run a hose through the block, heater core and the rad all independently from each other. I've always used tap water in my vehicles and I've never experience any accelerated wear. I don't usually keep my vehicles for super long but rads and hoses are relatively cheap. I wouldn't worry too much about having a bit of tap water in it honestly.
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#2
by
air-cooled or diesel
on 16 Dec, 2016 02:53
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The red charging light is staying on and the alternator checks out. I'll be cleaning up the grounds first. Any other ideas would be helpful.
check you exicter wire is hooked up and connected properly.
I do have the older 6pt crankbolt on this truck but cannot find a newerer 12pt. I read somewhere I should replace it..?
i still have orig 6pt crank bolts in mine, either make sure its real tight, i set at 150ftlbs, or when already good and tight take a good impact on high setting and hit a few times. newer 12pt crank 'stretch' bolts are easy to find. and fit, so i hear. edit-perhaps the newer 'stretch' bolts dont fit-
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#3
by
Heron
on 16 Dec, 2016 06:18
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Yes, won't be able to get her "hot" before I change everything out. I hate to put a new water pump on before I can flush properly but I may just run tap thru everything once I get the old water pump and all hoses off.
I remember hearing about the exciter wire but I cannot remember where it is, is it in the Bentley?
Also, I'm needing a new cold start wire and cannot find one anywhere, any ideas?
Is it easier to mark the belts and pulley's to replace the timing belt or should I just loosen everything up, find TDC and go from there?
The truck runs great, I'm wondering if I really have to adjust the IP timing once I change the belt? I kind of hate to mess with it...
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#4
by
RunninWild
on 16 Dec, 2016 12:32
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I'm not sure about the older style turbo diesels (pre85) but the 85 and newer ones timing is very important and needs to be set accurately. Marking the belt doesnt really work on these engines. You need to set the timing to tdc, loosen the cam pulley, put a locking plate on the back of the cam and a locking pin on the pump install the new belt and then set the pump timing with a dial gauge. I suppose keeping the pump locked in place would keep it fairly close to what its set at now.
Give this a read, its a really good guide on how to set the timing properly.
http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28
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#5
by
Heron
on 16 Dec, 2016 14:43
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Yes, I like Vince's write up. I've just read so much on different sites about all the differing philosophies. I'm really trying to narrow things down. I have all the tools to do it right and will do it by the book but I was wondering if the truck runs really well, starts without any hesitation, I'm thinking I need to check the timing before I do anything and make sure I set it back to that same place.
Also, I've seen some instructions with the four injector lines disconnected and others with them connected. Not sure I can get the dial guage in there without removing the lines.
Anyone know the best way to check timing before I start the timing belt, water pump etc...?
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#6
by
RunninWild
on 16 Dec, 2016 15:23
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To check timing you would rotate the crank to tdc and insert your dial gauge with a bit of preload, rotate the engine backwards until the gauge stops moving then zero it, rotate forward until you are at tdc and that will tell you the pump timing. Depending on your dial gauge adapter you shouldn't need to remove the lines. Stock timing isnt necessarily "the best". There is a wide range the engine will run fairly well at but most people suggest a bit of advance to increase performance, cold starting and fuel mileage. I think around .95mm-1.05mm are what most people recommend but there's no set number for the best, trial and error is how you would figure it out. A lot of people time it by ear as well.
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#7
by
Rabbit79
on 16 Dec, 2016 23:03
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When you say "cold start wire" I'm guessing you mean the cable for the cold start timing advance. As far as I know you can't get them anymore, unless you find one in a junk yard. The only place I've seen anything close is from Parts Place. According to their literature what they sell as a replacement will work, but it's not the same as OEM.
I don't think the 12 point crank bolts will work for you. If I recall correctly the 12 point bolts are M14 and the 6 pointers are M12.
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#8
by
Heron
on 17 Dec, 2016 13:00
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Yes, the cold start wire. I'll maybe do something with a choke setup.
On a different track.
Got TDC on flywheel but it is off about 1/4" if I slide cam lock in to place.
Do I remark and assume when dealer put flywheel back in they didn't get it right?
Truck runs great right now...?
I'm simply trying to get a timing reading so I can put it back there when I put the new belt on.
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#9
by
RunninWild
on 17 Dec, 2016 13:18
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There isn't much play in the flywheel. Even with cam timing slightly off the car can run half decent. I'd just set it properly if I were you.
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#10
by
Heron
on 17 Dec, 2016 14:16
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Not sure what to do here.
I was hoping to get a timing number so I can put it back to the current timing number once I put on the new belt.
The flywheel TDC is still visible in the hole but not right at center. If I put the cam lock on it moves it maybe 1/4"
The belt is still on
Should I take a measurement with the dial indicator before I loosen the cam nut and turn the engine to get it to exactly TDC?
This truck starts faster, smokes less and seems to have more power than any I have ever driven...?
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#11
by
RunninWild
on 17 Dec, 2016 14:43
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go by the crank position rather then the cam, it sounds like your cam wasnt set properly to begin with.
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#12
by
Heron
on 17 Dec, 2016 15:05
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I really want to preserve whatever setting the pump is at now.
Question is; how to accurately measure the current timing if the TDC mark on the flywheel is not perfectly centered(with all locks in)..and if it's even realistic?
Do I measure it with the TDC on the crank over to the side of the peep hole if all locks are in place or do I forget the locks(IP and cam), move the crank a hair to get it right on crank TDC and use that as my reference to measure the current timing?
I'd think not b/c as soon as I loosen the cam sprocket and align the TDC so the mark is right on and all locks are in place the previous timing number(where the truck runs GREAT) is not valid...right?
I know I can start over, change out everything, put the new belt, tensioner etc...in place and then follow the TDC and retime it as per .88 but I've read so many people have issues once they mess with it. I'd really love to have a PRE measurement so even if my guage is not accurate I can return it to the exact same setting and hopefully the engine will run as it did before.
I know I'm not 180 out as the notch in the cam is not centered and there is only one way the lock will work and when it's there it's almost(1/4" off) right on TDC and all locks are in place, cylinder 1 lobes are up.
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#13
by
TylerDurden
on 17 Dec, 2016 16:43
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I agree with the notion that the cam was not set properly. If your machine runs well now, it will only run better with the cam set right.
PS
I haven't had one of these where I couldn't get the dial indicator installed with the lines in place.
It's not uncommon for someone to inadvertently shift the cam timing when tensioning the belt... slack has to be on the tensioner side.
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#14
by
RunninWild
on 17 Dec, 2016 17:11
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Check your pump timing off of the crank. I honestly think you are worried too much about what its timed at right now. A bit of advance is going to do nothing but make it run better, like I said before best performance/mileage is usually around .95-1.05mm. If you want to know what it was before hand as a starting point then sure have a look but to just set it and forget it at that value might rob you of free performance. There is a fairly big timing range that the engine will run fairly well at.
Like tyler mentioned its fairly easy to shift the timing slightly when setting tension. I typically get the belt on and have the cam pulley loose and the lock in place, rotate the crank slightly past tdc, then back to tdc, set tension, remove the lock and tighten the cam. rotate the crank twice and verify its set properly. Dont set your belt too tight either, you dont need much tension on it.