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Author Topic: AAT/AEL mTDI pump questions  (Read 2146 times)

June 04, 2016, 06:58:22 pm

ross1905

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AAT/AEL mTDI pump questions
« on: June 04, 2016, 06:58:22 pm »
Hi, I'm Ross and a new member on the forum. Have been browsing over this forum and alike for a few years now, though.
I apologize for the long post in advance! Anyway, I have a Volvo 740 with a 2.4 TD engine. (D24T IDI VW motor).
My plans are to swap this engine out with a 2.5 TDI AEL engine from an Audi A6.
Now I have built/played with diesels for years but it's always been IDI, mostly XUDs and not really any DI.
I want to mTDI this engine as the 740 has no ECU anyway and I far prefer mechanical control.
I just have a few questions on the pump build as it's 5 cylinder and I've never built an mTDI pump before. I have a fair idea on mTDI 4 cylinder pumps but this is a 5.

My idea was to use the D24T 6 cylinder pump casing and driveshaft (this is a 20mm shaft).
Strip the pump and fit the necessary internals for DI from the AEL's VP electronic pump (camplate, head, plunger etc)
Fit the roller cage and rollers from the AEL pump as I believe I need 5 rollers for DI instead of 3 rollers that's in 5 cylinder IDI.

I'm slightly stumped on how i'm going to do the dynamic timing - i.e. timing piston, springs shims etc. and what one to use?
The leverset - afaik I need specific DI levers from a standard mechanical DI pump (300tdi?) or modified levers as IDI levers don't allow enough travel on the control collar? Is this right?
Also I believe the governors on DI and IDI pumps are different too in the spring arrangement - again maybe 300tdi pump governor?
I think I'd use the governor flyweights from whatever pump the levers come from...

Obviously once the pump is largely built I think it would be best to test it and set it on a flow bench etc.
Any heads up on this would be great as there isn't much info out there that I can find on 5 cylinder pumps and a lot of this is just a rough idea based just on what I know.
Thank you!



Reply #1June 05, 2016, 06:08:31 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: AAT/AEL mTDI pump questions
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2016, 06:08:31 pm »
I'd imagine you'd do well to use the governor and advance setup from a 300TDI pump along with the 5cyl parts you've mentioned. Seems like it should all work as far as my understanding of how these pumps is concerned...

Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk

Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #2June 20, 2016, 01:24:27 am

ross1905

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Re: AAT/AEL mTDI pump questions
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2016, 01:24:27 am »
Thanks, I will do a build thread on the pump build etc when I get around to doing it to keep this updated  ;D

Reply #3July 04, 2016, 07:50:34 am

rbremiller

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Re: AAT/AEL mTDI pump questions
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2016, 07:50:34 am »
Giles Gallie from "Performance Diesel Injection" in Ontario built this one from parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6fYi13CBlU
'91 180k Audi 80Q mTDI DD AHU, K14, LT pump,
http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?t=45645
'99 Jetta TDI 204k '02 engine, RC3+E, 11mm IP, .216, Racepipe, 2.5''SS exhaust, PD Lift pump,  Boostvalve, PanzerPlate, boost gauge, MAF delete.
'89 Audi 80Q ...waiting
'85 BMW R80

Reply #4October 30, 2018, 12:17:16 pm

dobbybaier

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Re: AAT/AEL mTDI pump questions
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2018, 12:17:16 pm »
Hello guys, sorry for digging this out! I am Tobias, also a new member - from Germany by the way, therefore not the best im english.

I am planning a similar conversion like Ross, but the AEL engine will run in my VW Typ2 Vanagon (hopefully...).

Ross: Did you finish the project? Which pump did you use for the base / which casing did you use?

I am wondering whether it is possible to use a R-type pump (clockwise rotation) as a base when aiming to build a L-type pump (counter clockwise rotation)?

I would be glas and thankful for advise! thanks!
- VW Typ 2 Vanagon 16V
- VW Typ 2 Vanagon Syncro - to be finished

Reply #5January 29, 2019, 05:15:48 pm

dobbybaier

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Re: AAT/AEL mTDI pump questions
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2019, 05:15:48 pm »
hello guys,

meanwhile, I realized the project, at least the pump.
As a base, I used a pump from a rover 200 2.0 TD engine (Bosch No.: 0460414118 - 20 mm main shaft and LDA - L-type). The high pressure parts and camplate came from a 2.5 l TDI pump (from ACV engine, Bosch No. will be delivered later).
Unfortunately, the inner parts of the rover pump were heavily corroded, therefore I had to purchase another IDI pump that came from a FIAT scudo (Bosch No.: 0460494370). I used almost all the IDI specific parts of the pump from the scudo (main shaft, lever assembly, upper housing incl. LDA, ...).

The upper housing of the scudo has the advantage of a mechanical shut down lever that works fine - so you don't need the shut down solenoid. Draw back is the fact, that this is a R-type pump and the throttle lever collides with the injectors - so, a tailored solution will be necessary in my vanagon, but this is no problem. For the test run, it has simply been cut.

The roller cage of the finished pump is from the TDI pump, but I had to remove the upper part of the cage to gain the space for the flyweight governor. Thats why it has only 4 rollers not 5.

Concerning the timing piston, I used the one from the rover pump - it was the shortest on (see pic - left: rover pump, right: ACV pump). The spring and the cover are from the TDI pump - this allows the highest travel of the piston (longest spring, highest cover). Additionally, I increased the length of the gap for the connecting pin in the rover main housing (just like the gap in the TDI housing).

The rover pump has got a solenoid for control of the timing. I did not activate it in the first tests and the engine sounded quiet good, therefore I believe that it won't be necessary to use this valve. I did some testing and setting up during this trial run but the real results will be gained on the road - unfortunately this will take some additional time.




You can find a video from the first test run on a 2,4 l IDI AAB engine (only for the test, the on in the vanagon will be an AEL) on youtube. I am not allowed to post the link, but you will find it by searching the following terms:

'Testlauf Bosch mTDI Einspritzpumpe 5-Zylinder' (27 s lasting)

 PS: The AAB did not run for 6 month +; -1 C; no use of glow plugs - preheating by hand-held heating gun; static timing at 0.95
- VW Typ 2 Vanagon 16V
- VW Typ 2 Vanagon Syncro - to be finished

Reply #6January 30, 2019, 01:34:57 pm

dobbybaier

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Re: AAT/AEL mTDI pump questions
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2019, 01:34:57 pm »
The Bosch No. of the 2.5 TDI ACV pump is 0460415983.
- VW Typ 2 Vanagon 16V
- VW Typ 2 Vanagon Syncro - to be finished

Reply #7February 06, 2019, 12:24:52 pm

Broosse

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AAT/AEL mTDI pump questions
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2019, 12:24:52 pm »
My 2lt injection pump is spewing fuel, as such I called  a local toyota scrap dealer and he has a 2l injection pump. Will the 2l pump work on my 2lt?
Thank you in advance for your help

 

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