White smoke after warm up - HG replaced

[SR Heer]

I am throwing this out to you gurus - a friend's 1.6TD starts and runs great - then when it reaches running temps starts to smoke white smoke - he replaced the head gasket and it still does the same - does this ever happen if one or more of the injectors start malfunctioning after they warm up or is it the other way around where injectors usually malfunction if not when cold - all the time?
Some one said it was a glow plug but that makes no sense because it is not smoking when cold but after warming up so glow plugs should not have anything to do with it! Correct?
Thanks!

[Dakotakid]

What? This has been up two days and nobody said to put clear lines on it? I thought that was the default answer/solution here now days!

When this engine is now cold started, how soon does the remote res. start to "cook?" Let me guess...when the head was off no attempt was made to immaculately clean and straight-edge and pressure-test?

I guess you could slightly retard the timing and see what happens. How much smoke is smoke? I mean...how bad is this "problem?"

Is this one of those engine blocks which ran the original anti-freeze in it for 25 years? As in heavy corrosion in the jackets? I have heard of pin-hole etching causing problems once the jacket is pressurized (remember, there is an intake stroke)

Be specific as to why the determination was made to pull the head and change gasket. No compression? Grey smoke? Nothing else to do on a Saturday night? I HATE smoke questions. We need one of those icons (or whatever they are called) where the guy is slamming his forehead against the wall.

[Dakotakid]

Here is something to bear in mind: when talking about "injectors," it is very easy to fall into the mindset that they all work the same and fire the same, etc. After I (finally) purchased my own pressure tester (wanted one for over 10 years), I learned the realities of some of the characteristics that used injectors display.

Worn injectors can vary a great deal in their firing pressures due to wear, contaminants, and the sad fact that they probably never were set to optimal/maximal performance. I honestly think most paid rebuilders spend as little time as possible working on them. They want to slam them together and "get them out the door" and get paid. Period. I think most shops will set them toward the LOWEST working pressure (because that is easiest to get them not to leak) and call it quits.

I recently went through my 5 gallon bucket of over 45 used injectors. Over the years, I had collected them from parted-out vehicles, etc. and had them sitting in clean hydraulic fluid. The service life of most of these was unknown. A few of them had come from seemingly nice cars prior to be wrecked or whatever.

Out of the 45, about 6 of them actually fired within n/a specs. I don't recall any of them being within the higher range of the pressures listed for td operation (2,400 lbs or so). The VAST majority of them released their fuel around 1,400 to 1,600 lbs. I could do a better job of atomizing after drinking a quart of iced tea. Many of them did the "garden hose" thing before firing which would indicate worn or really contaminated nozzles. Many of them would dribble when brought to almost-firing pressure.

The truth is, these cars will run on just about anything. But, yes, you can get smoke and uneven running and etched pistons, poor fuel mileage, and harder starting.

An injector which for-whatever-reason fires early in the pressure range could seem to run well at cold conditions (think in terms of sloppy-advanced timing). Then, once the engine gets to running temp the sloppy injector, that probably dribbles between pressure spikes, might well contribute to a less-than-clean burn.

All I know is that after I started rebuilding my own injectors (with new nozzles) and "custom" setting them to my pressure specs, all of a sudden my engines are smoother, happier, and one of them abruptly pulled my new clutch fiber loose the first time I rolled open the throttle in 3rd gear. Efficiency brings surprises you did not foresee. I also set my pressures about 200 lbs higher than any listed in the Bentley.

If you are running old injectors that someone else rebuilt......it is like walking blindfolded and drunk through Syria. I hope this made sense.

[SR Heer]

Awesome response! Thanks for head up! Getting an AG Precision injector nozzle tester so will be doing some of my own popping!

[ORCoaster]

Let us know what the initial pressures were and what sort of atomized stream you had prior to fixing the problems. 

Dakotakid,  Can you expand a bit on why you up the pop pressure over the Bentley specs by 200 PSI?   

I don't drink enough tea.

[libbydiesel]

What? This has been up two days and nobody said to put clear lines on it? I thought that was the default answer/solution here now days!

Definitely put clear lines on it.  Air infiltration will cause it to smoke white.  It's a 'default answer' because air infiltration into the fuel is an incredibly common cause of several incredibly common problems.  Duh...  It is also one of the most simple and inexpensive action to take to address those common symptoms.  Again, duh...  Good mechanical practice 101 is to proceed from the easiest and least expensive possible cause of the symptom and proceed to progressively more involved and more expensive possible causes. 

[Dakotakid]

SR, after completing the duh default, don't forget to overlook valve adjustment if solid lifter head. I've also had hydro lifters freeze enough to not cause valve bending, but, to not work properly either.

I've not had any sort of clear line for (I guess) 26 years. My stuff runs great. Well, I guess there is still a clear line on the Eco diesel which is in storage. Perform whatever tasks you wish.

[libbydiesel]

What's your problem with recommending clear lines?  WTF?  You like just not knowing if you've got air getting into the fuel?  You prefer guessing that you don't and running after more complicated red-herrings like valve adjustment when you could just pop the hood and know INSTANTLY what the issue is...  [facepalm]  Let me guess... you've fixed the electrical systems in your vehicles for the last 30 years without ever using a meter...  No need to test for simple things, just throw parts at it...

[ORCoaster]

I've not had any sort of clear line for (I guess) 26 years. My stuff runs great.

I read it as he has no problems to do any troubleshooting on, Libby.  So why would he put clear hoses on a vehicle that isn't causing him any trouble. 

Just the way I read it. 

[libbydiesel]

Ok, but why spew bile on the suggestion that someone use clear lines when they have a symptom that would totally match air infiltration? 

[ORCoaster]

By Bile do you mean this statement?

What? This has been up two days and nobody said to put clear lines on it? I thought that was the default answer/solution here now days!

I thought it was an interesting way of introducing the rest of his topics and a poke at the rest of us for not getting on the ball sooner and suggesting the cheapest diagnostic tool we have in the tool box. 

[libbydiesel]

I guess there's often more than one way to take things.  I indeed took his post as a criticism of the recommendation for clear lines.  His follow up statement seems to me to have made it even clearer that his initial intention was not a recommendation for clear lines, but rather a criticism of the recommendation for clear lines.  Maybe he can use some clear lines to make his meaning more clear.

[ORCoaster]

I clearly understand the need for clear lines to clearly see if air is in the system.  This clearly makes sense to most of us, clearly to me, as I have clearly installed clear lines to aid me in a clear analysis of this type of situation. 

Let me clearly state that there may be misunderstandings on this, and all forums on many issues and that having a clear sense of humor and not jumping off the edge is clearly the way I read all posts.

I don't know if this is clear or not.

[libbydiesel]

I agree.  I will try to do better next time.  I'm still looking for clarity from DK as to whether his initial comment I replied to was a criticism or recommendation.  In hindsight, that probably should have been my initial reply. 

[fatmobile]

Soooo SH Heer,...
got clear fuel lines? Seriously!!
 T-shirts coming soon,  ha.