Just bought an 88' idi

[JonnyOg]

Hey guyes, new to vw diesels, just have some newbie questions!
So I just picked up a 1988 jetta 1.6 td for a winter car/something to tinker with and have been reading lots of threads, but I have some probably dumb questions.
The car runs great once its going, but is insanely hard to get started, I've had to hook it up to my E30 and crank it over for 2-3 minutes to get it to start every time, even when its warm. I hill started it once and it fired up really quick so I'm not sure what the issue is. I'm going to be changing glow plugs and probably rebuild the starter motor. Also going to change timing belt and set timing as well as change all filters.

Also, after looking around it seems there are a few different 1.6 td engines producing different HP numbers
Which one do I have?

[TylerDurden]

Howdy,

There is an engine code on the block, sorta above the vacuum pump. The two letters at the start of the code are significant to the type.

If you are in the USA, the engine may not be original... IIRC, there was a gap for TDs between 86 and 91.

Hard starting is often from air in the fuel lines and/or poor compression:

To check for air in the lines, get some clear tubing for the in and out of the IP (Injection Pump) and look for bubbles. Using the clear lines to feed from a clean container will help isolate the engine/IP from tank and lines (for diagnosis).

Compression can be assessed off the cuff by turning the engine by hand and feeling the resistance; a compression test gauge is the best.

The Robert Bentley manual is well worth the price.

[JonnyOg]

Ah bad compression would suck! I guess I'll have to test for that. Could timing be a factor? I'm actually in Canada and as far as I know its the original engine. I know the car sat for a month or two before I picked it up aswell.

[RunninWild]

Sounds like a compression issue to me. The fact it doesn't want to start when it's warm to me at least hints it's a bigger issue then just glow plugs.

You can feel the head where the glow plugs are and if it warms up after cycling the key they are probably still good. It won't get hot but will definitely get above ambient temp.

Try that and check your timing. If your timing is off it can lead to hard starting.

[vanbcguy]

So before we mess around with everything, what have you done to verify that your glow plugs are working properly?  I see you saying you are "going to replace them" but have you checked to see if they are getting power currently?  IDI diesels are brutally hard to start without glowplugs, especially at this time of year.

Simple test - cycle the glow plugs with a cold engine (turn the key on, wait till the GP light goes out but don't start the engine) then go touch the threaded end of the GPs where they attach to the bus bar.  They should all feel pretty warm.  If they're stone cold then you PROBABLY have an electrical issue and can start troubleshooting there.  If you've got one or two hot ones while the rest are cold you know you've got some bad plugs.  If they're all hot then you need to be chasing a slow starter / timing / compression in that order. 

[ORCoaster]

vanbcguy, you got it right with the brutally hard to start without GPs this time of year.   

I have been driving a gasser for the last few weeks and today I got in the diesel and just hit the starter and held it waiting for the engine to roar to life like it always does.  Silly boy, that is not going to work on the ole VW.  After about 7 turns of the starter I remembered, yellow light is not about oil pressure here but GP relay.  Oops, key off, key on, wait for it....   Turned to starter and varoom, off she goes, two cranks of less. 

I like the feel the heat test mentioned here.  Most of us can pick up on that little bit of warm if we don't have gloves on the fingers.  Once that problem is ruled in or out the other fixes may be in order.  But first we have to have a little bit of help warming that fuel or we just grind the starter and batteries to an untimely death. 

[JonnyOg]

Ok well would that still matter if the engine was hot? Even after stopping for gas its really hard to start again. Does the timing ever go out by itself on these engines?

[RunninWild]

You can skip a tooth but that's usually the result of a larger problem which would probably be more evident. You can pull the top cover for the timing belt and have a look and see if everything is right and in good condition.

That being said as injectors and pumps age they are less efficient and can need a bump in timing to run optimally.

[burn_your_money]

Sounds like it could be bad cables.

I made a thread called how to perform a voltage drop test. That will explain how to test to see if it's your issue.

Timing is another likely possibility.

Where in Canada are you?

[JonnyOg]

I'm in BC, just starting to get colder temperatures now. Yea the PO said he ran the car with the timing advance lever out all the time, idk if thats an issue? I'll try the voltage drop test today.

[ORCoaster]

From Initial Post:  The car runs great once its going, but is insanely hard to get started, I've had to hook it up to my E30 and crank it over for 2-3 minutes to get it to start every time, even when its warm. I hill started it once and it fired up really quick so I'm not sure what the issue is.

Then you mention that it is hard to start after running a bit.

I am putting some stock in the fact that your starter can't develop the proper snap to turn the engine over quickly.  The hill start produces that needed snap.  So perhaps pull and clean that starter.  You could put a clamp on amp meter on that big honking wire to the starter and see what kind of amps it draws to turn it over and then compare it to the cleaned starter.  Clean should be less.  Lube in the tip of the starter and maybe even get an eye on that bushing back in the case and see if it is all worn and causing a drag on the starter. 

Quick before it snows and you have to lay in the cold to do this. 

[JonnyOg]

definitely think the starter might be a part of it. The glow plugs are also only getting 7v so I think that might be part of it as well. I think I'm gonna pull the injector and sonic clean them.

[ORCoaster]

If only 7 volts on GPs then you need to source that loss from the battery on to the plugs.  Is the battery even up to snuff at 12.5 volts or so.  Fully charged with no drain should be over 12.5  12.6 or 12.7 I think it was. 

Could be the source of most of your problems electrical.   

[RunninWild]

You should pimp your glow plugs. Its fairly easy, cheap and gives full battery voltage.

[JonnyOg]

Battery is good, been starting it with jumpers onto another vehicle anyways. Yea seems to have some janky wiring, definitely part of the problem. Can I use N/A injectors on my TD? Seems like conflicting info out there. And thanks for the responses! You guys have been super helpful so far. Car is super smoky. I'm thinking I might have leaky injectors and the diesel isnt burning properly.