CY vs MF engine

[oblique]

Good day folks,

I've recently picked up an 84' Jetta TD which had the engine swapped out for a newer MF motor. I'm having issues with oil appearing in the coolant (PO said he didnt plane the head prior to doing a head gasket). Recently an 84 Jetta TD parts car surfaced on local classifieds with original CY motor.

My question is do I stay with the MF and fix it or swap for the CY? What are the differences between the engines?

I also need a new downpipe - will the same exhaust system fit either engine?

[Dakotakid]

"Newer" on the MF would imply hydraulic lifters. Do you mean to say "fresher" instead? Early MF's were solid lifter heads. Later were hydro.

Some CY's are hydro (according to one which surfaced on this forum very recently). Most CY's you run across will be solid (I think).

Hydro heads cost more to truly fully rebuild due to needing more expensive valves and hydro lifters. Good hydro camshafts are getting difficult to find due to poor hardened surfaces from the factories....the lobes flake. Solid heads generally cost less to do a full, comprehensive rebuild.

Other than that, I have always felt (due to better block wear characteristics) that earlier engines had a bit more nickel in the cast iron and tended to have slightly better bore-wear characteristics. Myself, I much PREFER solid engines.

[oblique]

I thought all 1.6 turbo diesel engines were hydro to handle the extra stresses? I know that some mech heads are specifically turbo and other not - is this true for hydros?

Regardless, is there a power difference between the 2 engines, assuming CY is mech and MF hydro? The car is decent on power right now but I really wouldnt want any less..


Thanks for your input.

[RunninWild]

You're thinking oil squirters. All turbo's came with oil squirters but the older heads were mechanical.

Any performance difference between the 2 engines would easily be removed with a little tweaking of the injection pump.

If the engine is cheap enough and runs well there is no reason not to get it. You can most likely sell the turbo, pump and manifolds you don't use and get most of your money back.

Resurfacing the head and changing the gasket can easily become very expensive as you don't really know what work the engine needs until it's apart. These are great little engines but they are so cheap these days it's usually way cheaper and easier to just scrap them when they break over rebuilding.

[Dakotakid]

I'm sorry....I didn't catch what planet you said you were from.
In my area, and that reaches all the way down into Denver, and across to Minneapolis, these engines and components have been gone for the better part of 30 years.

Perhaps that would account for so many of us paying such high freight to buy crap out of Canada?
Guys like you are the reason so much useable stuff has been destroyed.

[RunninWild]

Usable stuff? I don't fully considered a rebuildable core as useable. Usable to me means it's in good condition and doesn't need any money put into it. Maybe it has to do with your insanely low cost of living or high valued dollar but up here machning costs and parts are easy 2 to 3 times more expensive then it is in the states. For an example I've heard you can get heads resurfaced for $40 in the states the local shop I looked into a couple weeks ago charges $180. Getting a head rebuild can easily run $1000 and a block can be in excess of $2000. I can fairly easily find complete running engines for $500 or less. I'm not telling him to scrap the parts, I think I pretty clearly told him he can sell them off to cover some of the costs of the new engine. For the average person who isn't in love with their car and don't plan on keeping it for another 10 or 15 years getting a used engine is for $500 makes a lot more sense then somewhere around $3000 for a rebuilt one. But that's just me. I don't have a lot of money laying around.

[vanbcguy]

^^^ I hear that... I think I paid around $2k to get my AHU block and head prepped, NOT including pistons.  That covered resurfacing the head, decking the block, a bore, light polish on the crank, new valve guides and valve stem seals, lapping the valves and reassembling the bottom end with new bearings.  Labour is expensive here!!

In contrast I sold my good running 1.6TD for $600....

[theman53]

^^^ I hear that... I think I paid around $2k to get my AHU block and head prepped, NOT including pistons.  That covered resurfacing the head, decking the block, a bore, light polish on the crank, new valve guides and valve stem seals, lapping the valves and reassembling the bottom end with new bearings.  Labour is expensive here!!

In contrast I sold my good running 1.6TD for $600....

so you are saying either you pay too much for machining or don't realize the value of a running engine? It is sarcastic, but still you guys should have a closer gap in prices than that if the "good running" didn't have 150,000 miles on it. FWIW here you can pay 600 to infinity for machining. It all depends on whom you go to and what you get done. Really you could pay 80 dollars for machining if you don't do anything at all but have the 4 holes bored from the one guy around here. Thing is I don't think we should be melting these engines down if they are on the stock bore and someone could do something with them. Scrap values wouldn't even get 50 dollars for one of these blocks and I am sure someone would pay 50.00 for a block that could be used.

[RunninWild]

It's not just machining costs. Any little part costs a lot more money up here. For example glow plugs in amazon.com were like $25 for a set with free shipping in the states. The same plugs in amazon.ca were $150.

I often buy many parts online from the states that are under $10 then pay more for shipping then for the item and and I still end up saving 40-50% over the cost of buying it up here if I can even find it locally. We get hosed up here on anything except used stuff.
There's probably 3 or 4 running 1.6td engines on cl within a 3 hour drive from me for under $500. It's a pretty easy decision up here.

I do agree with saving stuff from being crushed though. Probably why my deck is filled with old parts.

[Dakotakid]

If it is working good for you...keep going. I did not realize you were way up there. Finding a machine shop that didn't rape me was, indeed, a challenge.

PM me with items of interest in selling if the time comes. You just never know...............

Back to the original poster, as far as the hydro heads, it seems there is no difference in what was fitted between turbo and n/a. You'll notice that the more expensive TRW valves (used in either application) are usually the only option for rebuild parts for those heads. All this stuff has been discussed many years ago if you are interested in performing a search. The info is out there. Many of us have turbocharged pretty much all the heads and lived.