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IDI Engine
(Moderators:
malone
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burn_your_money
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Vincent Waldon
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theman53
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Anyone have timing tools handy?
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Topic: Anyone have timing tools handy? (Read 7076 times)
Reply #15
October 28, 2015, 07:36:14 pm
RunninWild
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Re: Anyone have timing tools handy?
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Reply #15 on:
October 28, 2015, 07:36:14 pm »
With the nuts on the injectors cracked should fuel shoot out or dribble? I had the rear 3 lines dribbling a decent amount and I only noticed the first line was wet when I tightened it up and some fuel came out. Its possible there is still air. When cracked should they be like 3/4 a turn from tight or almost completely loose.
I'm going to confirm with the company that modified the flywheel on how to exactly determine tdc. Right now my bell housing has a line and I'm not sure if the flywheel mark is supposed to be below the line in line with it or right above. If the head is off by a tiny amount like 1 degree on the flywheel would it still fire? How much off can you be off before damaging a valve? When I found the mark on the flywheel the head was off maybe a tooth worth.
Its frustrating because my battery is so dead. Even with jumper cables you can tell the starter is having trouble and after 10 or 15 seconds of cranking it won't turn over again for a minute or 2.
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Reply #16
October 28, 2015, 09:24:13 pm
ORCoaster
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Re: Anyone have timing tools handy?
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Reply #16 on:
October 28, 2015, 09:24:13 pm »
Let me throw in on the questions you ask
1.Nuts on the injectors should be loose and 3/4 turn should do it. It works for me that way.
2.If the head is off alignment by a small degree it would still fire up. Off in a retard mode it would smoke a bit. Off in the advanced mode you wouldn't care because it would fire up easier.
3.I find that when I have aligned the pump up incorrectly and am about a two teeth off on the timing belt when I hand crank the engine over I don't get very far into the rotation before it bumps to a stop on me. I have a very thin head gasket and if I had a three notch I bet I would get just a little farther along on the rotation and then It would bump. With the piston actually extending out of the head there isn't much time when that valve is cracking open and extending downward towards the top of the piston.
4.I don't have a problem if I am only one tooth off on the timing belt.
5. How are you charging that battery back up? 10 amp charger until it kicks off? 2 amp trickle charge over night? Any chance you can charge the battery and then have a second running vehicle jumpered to it when cranking? That starter needs to snap not just roll over.
6. You may have mentioned this and I just am not remembering it. But did the IP get filled through the Out bolt or with a mighyvac? Either way there is still a good amount of air that gets kept in the top of the pump it seems.
Oh, and when it comes to fuel dribble or spitting out the back of the IP. Mine spits when I hook it up to a 1/2 inch drill with a 3/8ths inch extension in the chuck and put a 19 MM socket on that. I think on low range my drill turns 750 RPM, just about too slow for an idle but very near to it. I cover the back with a cloth and make sure the fuel solenoid has a 12 volt charge to it.
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Reply #17
October 28, 2015, 09:40:40 pm
RunninWild
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Re: Anyone have timing tools handy?
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Reply #17 on:
October 28, 2015, 09:40:40 pm »
I have a 1 notch as well. I didn't measure the protrusion but the old gasket was 1 notch and it ran fine and the pistons didn't have any imprints on them.
I havnt noticed the engine catch on anything when spinning it by hand. Its been hard to spin but figured that was because of compression. I guess it's possible I've damaged a vale. Would a bent valve lead to it not even trying to fire?
I didn't prefill the pump but I have an in line electric fuel pump I've been running while cranking it with the starter. On Sunday with my original timing setup I believe it had proper physical timing and the injection timing could have been anything. I got it to fire and it even sounded like it was running at one point but would die as soon as I let off the starter. That was also after quite a bit of cranking. I'm assuming it was a bit too advanced at that point. I havnt had it fire since then and have changed the timing probably 5 times.
I don't have a battery charger I've just been trying to jump start it which isn't helping. I'll ask around at work tomorrow and see if anyone has a trickle charger I can borrow. I also ordered one of those lithium ion car boosters which should arrive tomorrow. At the least it should help prime the pump if hopefully that's my problem.
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Reply #18
October 28, 2015, 09:51:42 pm
ORCoaster
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Re: Anyone have timing tools handy?
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Reply #18 on:
October 28, 2015, 09:51:42 pm »
Because of the way the valve and the top of the piston hit each other you really don't bend the valve to one side or the other. You kind of smash the valve stem up, squish it sort of. This makes it weak and can cause the valve to crack off after some time of running and it just bounces around on top the piston tearing it and the head to a very bad end.
The Electric pump should do a good enough job of prefilling the IP for you. Providing that it is running well enough with the weak battery.
The way you described the almost running bit has me wondering about the throttle arm position on the IP. You are keeping your foot about half way down on the accelerator when you are cranking on it right? If so I wonder if the throttle isn't off a notch or so and you just don't have any revs working for you.
But you say it was working and running prior to doing any timing adjustments right?
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Reply #19
October 28, 2015, 10:02:13 pm
RunninWild
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Re: Anyone have timing tools handy?
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Reply #19 on:
October 28, 2015, 10:02:13 pm »
I bought the pump off the forum. Seller said it had came back from Giles from a retune and he decided to go mtdi instead of using it. I have never seen it run personally. I was kind of all over the place with the throttle and cold start lever.
If I cant get it running with this pump I'll put my 1.6td pump on that I know works for sure and give it a try. Although I did modify my pump mounting bracket to hold my aaz pump so I don't know how secure it'll hold that pump anymore. Probably track poorly I'd imagine.
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Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 10:11:53 pm by RunninWild
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Reply #20
October 28, 2015, 10:06:59 pm
RunninWild
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Re: Anyone have timing tools handy?
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Reply #20 on:
October 28, 2015, 10:06:59 pm »
I also don't know if I mentioned it here but my first few timing attempts I couldn't get my gauge to bottom out in the pump to 0 it. My first try I just advanced the pump to .10mm 2nd attempt I advanced it to 1.0mm it was obviously mistimed and too far advanced. The .10mm was probably close but a little too far off I'm thinking.
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Reply #21
October 30, 2015, 05:28:01 pm
RunninWild
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Re: Anyone have timing tools handy?
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Reply #21 on:
October 30, 2015, 05:28:01 pm »
So good news and possibly bad news. Once my battery was fully charged it wasn't that hard to get started. It was firing but didn't want to catch or idle at first but eventually fired up with a LOT of white smoke.
Now for the bad my purple coolant turned black almost instantly which makes me think the head gasket didn't seal properly, but my oil isnt getting foamy and even after a quick test drive there wasn't any excessive pressure in the coolant system and oil was still "clean". I guess it's always possible a bunch of dirt and crud got in the coolant jackets when cleaning the head. Probably doesn't take much to go from purple to black. I guess that will take a bit more time to investigate. My fan controller is still not working even after hooking it up according to the manufacturer and I managed to overheat it again.... Wasn't for long so hopefully no damage this time. Now onto my biggest problem; the idle is very rough, gets better with the cold start and it sounds like it's only firing on 3 cylinders. The throttle also doesn't have much if any response below half way (I'm talking pump movement not just my pedal). Biggest fear now is the gasket didn't seal but I can work with that if necessary. I'm also worried by the missing on the one cylinder. Im really hoping I didnt fubar a valve 😞. At least it's moving now and I can get my landlord off my back.
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Reply #22
October 31, 2015, 05:28:05 pm
RunninWild
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Re: Anyone have timing tools handy?
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Reply #22 on:
October 31, 2015, 05:28:05 pm »
Tried the aaz injectors and they ran worse then the 1.6td ones. Still misses on 1 cylinder and the engine shakes pretty bad. The idle also doesn't react below 1/2. Has anyone experienced that before? Is it possible the injectors are causing that or is it more of an indication of a pump problem?
Because the engine is shaking badly does that mean it's fighting compression and one would tend to think it's more of a fuel/injector issues then a lack of compression causing the cylinder not to fire?
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Reply #23
November 01, 2015, 10:59:31 am
ORCoaster
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Re: Anyone have timing tools handy?
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Reply #23 on:
November 01, 2015, 10:59:31 am »
Do you have a way to test the compression? With the prior mention of tapping the valve with the piston I wonder if there is a problem with that cylinder properly building pressure. Since you swapped injectors that to me eliminates the possibility of injector trouble.
What kind of smoke are you dumping now?
I wouldn't think IP problem here. I think the lack of revs is connected to the fact that you are running on three cylinders not four and some thing is holding it back.
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VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
»
Engine Specific Info and Questions
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IDI Engine
(Moderators:
malone
,
burn_your_money
,
Vincent Waldon
,
theman53
) »
Anyone have timing tools handy?