Anyone have timing tools handy?

[RunninWild]

Just finished my head swap and I can't get the thing to start. My timing also doesn't make sense from all the guides I've read. When I put my dial gauge in the pump at tdc the gauge reads 0, turning the crank ccw does nothing. I need to advance the pump (turn ccw) in order for it to register. I'm at the point where I'm thinking my timing set from prothe might be of the quality most people tend to assign to his parts. If anyone has a timing dial gauge handy can they do me a huge favor and measure the amount the pin protrudes the end of the adapter? Mine is slightly under 1/2" and I'm thinking it's not long enough to give me a proper reading.

[Dakotakid]

My higher-end Schley protrudes 19 mm.

[RunninWild]

19mm is like 3/4 which makes more sense t me. I modified my gauge to 3/4" and will give it a try tomorrow in the light. Thanks for confirming my suspisions!

[ORCoaster]

I took a piece of brazing rod and cut one that would work for me.  The set of tools I have came with one of the right length but it spilled out somewhere and I couldn't find it.  A longer one would allow you to get to the face of the plate.  Just watch for too long as it might preload you too much. 

[libbydiesel]

You need to 'preload' the gauge at TDC.  What that means is that you need to insert the dial indicator into the adapter far enough that it reads 2mm or so (big hand rotates two revolutions, small hand moves from 0 to 2).  At that point, you rotate the gauge CCW until it stops moving and zero the gauge (rotate the face to 0).  From there, rotate forward  back to TDC and take your reading. 

[RunninWild]

Yeah I get that I'm saying my gauge won't read anything at tdc. I can't preload the gauge ,It doesn't register anything until I go beyond tdc. I'm 99% sure the pin on my dial gauge is too short and not teaching the plunger when it's bottomed out. At any rate I've modified the gauge and it should work now. I'll find out when I'm off work if my suspicions are correct.

[RunninWild]

The pin on the gauge was definitely too short. I can bottom out the plunger now but I kinda messed up the gauge when I modified it. It gets stuck and gives me a different number every time now but I think I got it set close to 1.0mm. Gonna try and jump start it tomorrow so I won't know for sure but hopeing it starts.

[CarlosA]

3/4 sticking out is about right. I ordered a proper kit several years ago and the long shaft was too long (by an inch) and the short shaft was too short even with the short adapter.

Most likely, you are getting odd readings because the shaft will stick inside of the adapter if everything isn't lined up just right.

I eventually made my own adapter, and press fit the dial indicator into it permanently, so it would always be perfectly in line with the bore.

[RunninWild]

I've modified mine once again. This time I taped a socket onto the gauge end then inserted my good imperial gauge into it and cut the pin off my cheap prothe gauge. Its long enough and the gauge spins and resets freely. Going to give it a try today if it won't start with whatever I put it too yesterday. Also discovered last night my tranny does in fact have an inspection hole for the timing mark so I can double check that.I originally set tdc by marking the crank pulley when measuring the highest point of the first cylinder. I've messed with it a few times since then so it's possible its physically off a bit as well.

[ORCoaster]

What did they do to hide the inspection hole on the transmission.  Isn't it like this big plastic plug with a smaller plug inside of it?

[RunninWild]

It's a Suzuki samurai transmission. I didn't know it had a hole and had never noticed it before. It was also hidden by my exhaust. Because the engine is mounted longitudinal My "downpipe" goes straight out the turbo makes a 90 around the head and over the tranny then down and out. The hole was under my pipe and also hidden by 2 coolant hoses.

At any rate my physical timing is now bang on and my 2nd modification to my timing gauge has been successful. Tdc on crank and head with .039 at the pump. I can recreate this by rotating the engine over. Battery is dead and I still have to reblead my fuel lines but it *should* start now assuming I didn't completely screw up when I changed the head.

And yes that a random bolt with washers holding on my tensioner. My tensioner has a weird bolt that's used to tighten it rather then the 2 holes and my stud was too short. I count find a stud locally and that's the best I could do without putting everything on hold to wait for shipping..

[Dakotakid]

"...didn't completely screw up when I put the head on..."
Man, you sure could have. Did you have the cam IN the head when you brought the head down onto the block?
If the cam was in, did you figure out that you have to have all 4 pistons roughly mid-ship in the bores? And, then bring the piston up ONLY after the cam was set to receive the piston at TDC (i.e. valves closed).

Some of these guys do stuff like that.

The alternative is to have the camshaft either out or loose in the caps. Then, only bring the cam down when it is safe.

Anyway, did you pay attention to the above?

[RunninWild]

No I did not do that the only open valves were in the 2nd cyliner and it was a btdc so hopefully no problems. Now I'm kind of worried. it was weird when I torqued it down. On my 2nd pass at 125lbs the middle studs all needed an extra 1/4 turn or so definitely could have crushed something.

That being said the engine turns over by hand smoothly, doesn't feel like anything is making contact and it builds compression.

[RunninWild]

I still can't get this thing to start. It hasnt tried to fire since Sunday. I'm running out of ideas. Crank and head are timed perfect and the injection pump is at. 039" (1mm). I must have messed something up. Is there an easy way to tell if the valves are bent with the head still on?

It's an aaz head on a 1.6 block. I know this leads to hard starting. It was maybe 10c today. Before I overheated the engine and put on the aaz head I was able to start the car without glow plugs even when cold (summer cold anyways). This should indicate the bottom end is in decent shape no? One would assume it should be able to fire with a brand new aaz head correct? Any suggestions from anyone? I'm going to see if I can find a cheap compression tester on Amazon.

[theman53]

Keep cranking. The IP probably has air...that is going off the fact that you verified the timing .