Advice on VW TD 1.6 Fuel Pump adjustments

[epowell]

Thanks LibbyDiesel
...no I am not at all afraid to invest money into my T3 - I am just currently a bit ignorant about what takes what...   I was under the impression that a rebuild might not require so many new parts.

Would it be true that doing a rebuild as you are suggesting however, would result in an engine almost as good as when it was new? Perhaps good for another 200K km? [assuming that the remaining engine elements before the rebuild were is reasonable condition - Block etc?

...another question - How do we know if the old engine is worth to rebuild? Do we strip it down to the bare block as look for cracks and warpage? If the cylinder walls have been warn too thin, can we simply replace with oversized pistons?

For someone like myself, just getting into this, I would imagine such a project could take up to a full year?

Thanks

PS - I fully agree with you that Vanagons are one of the all-time best vehicles. Personally I am not in any hurry to get anywhere and I don't even like driving on freeways... 

[libbydiesel]

The term 'rebuild' is one of the most misused terms in regard to engines.  It does have a correct meaning, though, which is to replace all of the wear parts that are out of spec for new parts and machine any necessary components in order to return the engine to basically new condition.  So, yes, a proper rebuild will return an engine to basically new condition.  200,000km in a vanagon is about all one could expect.

Thorough inspection during disassembly is required along with the knowledge of what can be rebuilt and what should go on the scrap pile.  At this point whenever I am rebuilding an engine, I have the block magnafluxed.  The machinist I use charges an extra $25 for the process and it will show up any cracks that would make the block not rebuildable.  On an older engine, the cylinder walls are pretty much always worn over the wear limit for the current piston size.  Having the block bored oversize and fitted with new pistons is pretty much a matter of course.  Because of the added weight and worse aerodynamics of the vanagon over the other VW models, I have found that cracks in the cyl head combustion faces are more common rendering the head to the scrap bin.   

It can certainly take a considerable amount of time.  A lot of reading and self-education before even commencing on the project would be wise.  If the van is currently running and you are serious about learning to do all of the maintenance and repair on it then I think a good approach would be to do the initial items you were asking about, e.g. timing belt, etc in order to 'get your feet wet'.  If you want to dive in further, I think a good approach would be to get another used engine and rebuild it while the van is operational.  When rebuilt, spend a weekend to swap them out.     

[epowell]

I am definitely serious about learning to do all the repairs on my T3. [I can them T3s because I am here in the Czech Republic, Central Europe...  although I am from Vancouver, BC.]

In my opinion the van is running really very well - feels great... It IS the original engine, never rebuilt I presume - otherwise the seller would have harped on that...  when asked the milage, he said "I have NO idea"...    - - - I intend to take this van on very long road trips, even down to Turkey and maybe even into Iran if that is even possible??  - - - so my guess is that this engine (or another) will NEED a rebuild before attempting any such ambitious road-trips.

Knowing that I am very serious about learning this stuff, and also knowing that for me this is simply a pleasure van that I don't NEED to drive around for work or anything. . .  would you suggest that I jump right in, right now in the beginning by doing myself the belt replacement and fuel pump timing? The van does run well now, and I don't need to drive it much right away - so I could now take the time to fully research the procedure, study it on up, and buy the proper tools. . .   then in a month or so attempt it.    - - - But you guys know this stuff better than me, and how difficult the task at hand truly is.

To guage my level of aptitude - I am a professional acoustic instrument maker (I design and build original stringed instruments), I have taken my laptop motherboard out and in at least 10X, I have rebuilt my mom's house 20 years ago, gas, electric, plumbing, new roof, new drain tiles, etc etc...  and I did major repairs and modifications to my bandsaw and other power tools a few times...
...but auto mechanics is something I never spent much time at.

Anyhow, here in Czech, the belt changing and fuel pump adjusting would cost US$250. Auto repair prices here are SO MUCH CHEAPER than in Canada!   ...but still, I want the FEELING of knowing how to do it myself! That's the kinda thing that makes me happy.

[libbydiesel]

Knowing that I am very serious about learning this stuff, and also knowing that for me this is simply a pleasure van that I don't NEED to drive around for work or anything. . .  would you suggest that I jump right in, right now in the beginning by doing myself the belt replacement and fuel pump timing? The van does run well now, and I don't need to drive it much right away - so I could now take the time to fully research the procedure, study it on up, and buy the proper tools. . .   then in a month or so attempt it.    - - - But you guys know this stuff better than me, and how difficult the task at hand truly is.

That sounds reasonable to me.  Doing the timing belt and injection pump timing is not overly difficult, but it must be done *precisely*.  There is very little margin for error with the timing belt and doing it incorrectly can destroy the engine fairly easily.  Make sure to research it completely so you understand the correct procedure and have the correct tools on hand.

[epowell]

....so the obvious FIRST immediate step is to get the Bentley manual. I guess this is the one??
http://www.bentleypublishers.com/volkswagen/repair-information/vw-vanagon-80-91-repair-manual.html
...or is there one for the specific year (1984)?

I noticed there is a HAYNES manual also - but everyone seems to say BENTLEY'S is the way to go....

[libbydiesel]

That Bentley is good for the vanagon in general although it does not cover the turbo-diesel option as that was never offered in the US.  The 1.6TD engine fitted in the vanagon has several vanagon specific parts but is most like an '83/'84 Quantum.  Here is the Quantum Bentley.  Haynes is ok.  It's not bad to have both, but get the Bentley first.  You can often find them used on eBay or Amazon.   

[epowell]

So having both the Bentley Vanagon and Quantum manuals together will be enough (more or less) to do a 1.6TD rebuild and installation. I guess having the Haynes Vanagon would be good also just to cross-reference. Does Haynes also have something covering the 1.6TD?

Considering SPACE REQUIREMENTS for an engine rebuild...  is it necessary to do the entire procedure in the garage? ...or is it conceivable to perhaps do the bulk of the work in a large room upstairs? Or is the block just too heavy to move up there, or too heavy once it is reassembled to move back to the garage? Obvously once it is done the engine needs to be run a bit and tweeked while still OUT of the vehicle (or no?) and this obviously needs to be done in the garage.

Thanks!

[libbydiesel]

The vanagon Bentley will cover vanagon items like the transaxle, suspension, cooling system, etc...  The Quantum Bentley would cover the engine itself.  I say that the Quantum is the closest because the stock vanagon 1.6TD engine also has solid lifters and uses the quantum/vanagon exhaust manifold.  However, there are still some ancillary differences.  The air filter, intake tubing, exhaust, oil filter flange, oil pan, oil pump, turbo oil return, injection pump, injection lines, flywheel and clutch are all diesel vanagon or TD vanagon specific parts. 

I can carry a complete short block without issue.  A long block hurts my back. YMMV.  Much of the work is on disassembly and getting ready to take the parts to the machine shop.  All of that is work on a dirty engine and dirty engine parts.  I'd want to keep those in an area that won't be hurt with a bit of grease, dirt, and black oil.  The parts will be clean for reassembly, but after machine work is done and all the correct parts are on hand it doesn't take very long to assemble the short block (a few hours if you take your sweet time). 

I have rebuilt quite a few engines and have never run them outside the vehicle.  On initial startup, I use a known good/tuned injection pump and injectors so I don't have to spend any time adjusting anything.  It is very important to avoid extended idling on fresh rings/cylinders and to get the engine driving and under varying loads or you risk glazing the cylinders and not having the rings seat.

[epowell]

...sounds like the Quantum manual will work, alongside help from experienced people for advice....

Also sounds like the main dis-assembly should be done outside. . .  and anyhow, who is going to steal a bunch of old oily engine parts? [of course some people will, but our town is pretty safe].

I doubt I will be able to re-assemble in just a few hours...  probably more like a few weeks, being my first one... I will be meditating on each bolt!!   ...but sounds like THAT work can be done inside and in peace since all the parts will then be clean.

...anyhow I am going to build a small carport for sure. . .   

It is a pity that in the US TD engines were not put into T3s...  it seems for this reason that on youtube is simply NOTHING on guys rebuilding or tweeking T3 diesels, because there AREN'T any! Europe is FULL of them....  I just got back from 10 days in Bosnia and was amazed. . .! Practically every second vehicle is a T3 DIESEL!  ...they are all over the place down there, and a look online shows that there are tons for sale, and all mostly around $1500 in good condition!    ....so tempted to go get some    ...if anyone wants to see some pics of those T3s I have them on FB... 

[air-cooled or diesel]

I noticed there is a HAYNES manual also - but everyone seems to say BENTLEY'S is the way to go....

the bentley is the shop manual; the haynes is ok, i usually(in the past) had better results with a haynes over chilton, a haynes has steps in it the shop manual doesnt have outlined, can be helpful (as a second source).

[air-cooled or diesel]

libb's out line of a rebuild is fairly thorough, a $400 kit wont cover 1/4 of his 'definition' of a rebuild,heheh, shop around for good prices on parts. in the US you can google 'vw diesel parts', and come up with a list, autohausaz is one of my(our) best parts sources, theyre drying up lately, so get them while you can, for most normal things theres still stock. i get name brand parts for almost everything, if not all, like trw valves, the meyle pistons i got are 'cheaper', but they are european, perhaps they are german as the box said, they will last 10 or more years, dont figure i ll get too many more years out of my girls(10-15). one of the things libb outlined in his rebuild 'kit' is going to be the need for special tools, like for intermediate bearings, youll need a press out&in and may need a shop for those, among other things.
the suspension may be similar to a T2 van/bus. i had a couple, one was a T2, that was with a typeI motor, they figured out all that size&weight was pushing the magnesium case all over the place, when they went later to the T4 motor, aluminum case, it worked out. same motor went into the porsche 914&912, and T4's. 1.7,1.8,&2.0 T4 motor. but what i wanted to outline is the suspension and brakes. at tirerack they still have bilsteins for mk1s&2s. so you can look up a set for your T3 camper, affordable and good. the T2 bus had an easy suspension not too dissimilar to a bug, only beefier, working on it was not difficult. a couple of stands (or 4)a good jack, a couple of blocks of wood, and your ready to start; well you need some of the right tools to get to the next level. id rebuild the suspensions front and rear, and brakes. a good few parts and not cheap (for all the parts), but well worth the work&investment. thats stuff like all rubber bushings for front/rear, wheel bearings, prob calipers and rotors & rear work. i get those stainless flexible brake lines, if i can get the old rubber ones off, cannt always get old ones off. plenty of other parts to get, ball joints, tie rod ends, roll bar rubbers, good rubbers (i prefer new)before an alignment, i get a 4 wheel align once in a while. for the rears it takes shims for the adjustment, that rear adjustment should last for years, then just check on the machine and align the front(when you do it again). 

[epowell]

Thanks so much for all of this info and inspiration - the GREAT NEWS is that just yesterday I GOT MY VAN!!!!!   ...his name is George!   . . .I already began ripping out all the stinky curtains and seat covers and carpets and crap - the previous owner did an amazing job on the body and mechanics, but the interior. . . well. . .     The van goes really well, engine is great as is...  the only weird thing is when going slowly over bumps the steering wheel seems to shake a bit like it is loose!  ...I am guessing something is loose and getting warnout in there.

The other thing is the brakes squeek a bit when going slow and braking... he said the pads are still quite good but need replacing pretty soon - so maybe they need replacing NOW!? Better have a look ASAP!

...anyhow the van will be sitting til November when I return from Canada with my new Drivers' licence   ---then I'm going the ROCKnROLL!  Can't wait!

Going to India in Dec./Jan. so serious work on the van won't start til Feb. and it will be cold!! 

I am going to now order all 3 manuals...  get them sent to Vancouver, and pick them up there on my visit...

What you said makes me somewhat concerned that there will come a day when T3 parts will no longer be available...  or be super expensive [this suddenly made to realize one reason why T1s and T2s are probably so expensive - cuz perhaps parts for those are super expensive now?].

...but I had an idea. . .  you know I was just down in Bosnia, and down there almost every second vehicle is a T3. And they are really cheap down there...  and almost every second house is a junk yard full of old vehicles, and this is a poor and cheap country. Bringing a whole vehicle from there to Czech would be really difficult - BUT bringing back tons of T3 spare parts would be no problem at all...    so I am thinking now about making a trip down there just for parts?   - - - also, those guys down there must have some sources also for new T3 parts...  I think I need to research this with my friends from down there --- maybe my buddies down there can hook me up with some cheap and plentiful supplier of T3 parts?  I will try.....

[libbydiesel]

The T3 (Vanagon) has gone way up in value in North America in the last decade.  Similar condition vans sell for 2-3X what they would sell for 10 years ago. 

I wouldn't worry too much about the stock T3 engines and engine parts becoming rare.  The AAZ 1.9TD is almost a drop-in engine, as is an AHU/1Z/AFN TDI running with a Land Rover 300TDI injection.  Either option gives much better performance and the TDI engines will give much better performance AND better fuel economy at the same time.  In fact, instead of doing any engine rebuild on the 1.6TD, you might consider one of those two options. 

[epowell]

The law in Czech is that you can put an engine, a different type than the original, only if you keep that car only for yourself - but if you ever plan to sell that car it can only be sold with the original engine type in it....   so this is something to consider. . . 

...the guy I just bought it off HAD a 1.9 TD in there, and he very much preferred it!

I will consider what you suggest, because it always possible just to re-drop the original engine back in if I decide to sell (just like this last guy did) - - - the more I think of it, the more that idea makes sense!   hmmm

[epowell]

It's really exciting to think about possibly putting a superior quality engine into my T3...   but the laws here in the EU are more strict regarding engine swaps. Also going from country to country can be tricky - sometimes they check the engine type and if the type is different they can suspect that the car is stolen. . .  however I doubt this with such an old funky van.....

The other thing is that probably an engine swap would add complications and this being my first such job, perhaps safer to keep things as simple as possible?

That being said, I am all ears, and will keep researching (also about the laws), because significantly increase power and economy is very attractive! The T3 is pretty wimpy on hills and fuel prices in EU are crazy!