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Author Topic: Setting static pump timing . 300tdi rover  (Read 8992 times)

June 17, 2015, 09:42:57 pm

Sohio

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Setting static pump timing . 300tdi rover
« on: June 17, 2015, 09:42:57 pm »
Have installed 300tdi pump on ahu and finding it very difficult to set the static pump time.
 
At the moment It's blowing lots of white smoke/ vapor .
More like vapor.
No matter how close I get it.

What I'm doing.
Locking engine at tdc.
   Installing dial gauge.
Screwing adapter all the way in.
Pushing gauge into adapter
all the way in then tightening it there.
Removing tdc locks
Spinning engine back till dial stops moving.
I tried then Removing dial /zeroing out and placing back so that at this point
It's just touching the measured bits of the pump.
Also tried just doin the math and keeping gauge in place.
At which point I then spin the engine slowly back to tdc while watching the gauge.
Once it's at tdc I correct the pump timing using the pully till it's advanced 1.32 while engine is at tdc.

Still getting rough idle if any and lots of vapor / smoke.
No black smoke. Mostly vapor.
Any thoughts?
Am I doing something wrong? ??


82 rabbit
98 jetta
Volvo 940
88 ford POS pickup

Reply #1June 18, 2015, 01:14:43 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: Setting static pump timing . 300tdi rover
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2015, 01:14:43 pm »
My 300TDI pump is timed to 1.45 or so. Try advancing it some more.
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #2June 18, 2015, 10:09:50 pm

Tylenol

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Re: Setting static pump timing . 300tdi rover
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2015, 10:09:50 pm »
I have my 300tdi without the throttle position set at 1.54 and it runs very smooth with no smoke!
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 10:11:33 pm by Tylenol »

Reply #3June 19, 2015, 11:26:18 am

vanbcguy

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Re: Setting static pump timing . 300tdi rover
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2015, 11:26:18 am »
I have my 300tdi without the throttle position set at 1.54 and it runs very smooth with no smoke!

Tylenol: Did you happen to measure the total lift in your pump? Just curious if it's the same camplate. My total lift was 2.45mm.

I've used a timing light with a pulse adapter on mine to get my setting.  I've run it as retarded as 1.38 which was about 8 degrees BTDC if I remember correctly.  1.45-1.47 or so is where I'm at now, my final number was achieved using only the timing light.  I'm at 12 degrees BTDC with that.

I also found a Rover guide on using a dial gauge on the Rover itself a little while ago.  They use the same Bosch injectors as we do.  No surprise, the Rover book number was 1.45 for my pump version.  I think the non-EGR pumps may have had different settings though, guessing that's what you've got.
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #4June 19, 2015, 03:10:30 pm

Tylenol

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Re: Setting static pump timing . 300tdi rover
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2015, 03:10:30 pm »
I have not done any internal mods to my pump yet so I do not know the lift! It is a stock 300tdi non EGR pump. From what I found the settings were different not sure why but they are! I have ordered a pulse adapter for my timing light to actually see what my engine is running when I get it I'll give you an update on where it was running at the book set point and my break in is almost done so I might break into the pump and if I do I'll get the lift for you if I go that deep into it!

Reply #5June 19, 2015, 04:33:00 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: Setting static pump timing . 300tdi rover
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2015, 04:33:00 pm »
You can measure the lift with your dial gauge. Just zero it out and keep turning. 

EGR is a tool used to keep NOx levels down. NOx is a product of combustion temperature and pressure. Different injection profiles will alter those variables. A non-EGR pump either is trying to keep NOx levels down without using EGR or was meant for a market that doesn't have NOx regulations. A different camplate makes sense.
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #6June 19, 2015, 05:28:51 pm

Sohio

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Re: Setting static pump timing . 300tdi rover
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2015, 05:28:51 pm »
My 300TDI pump is timed to 1.45 or so. Try advancing it some more.

this worked!
82 rabbit
98 jetta
Volvo 940
88 ford POS pickup

Reply #7June 25, 2015, 10:29:30 am

Tylenol

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Re: Setting static pump timing . 300tdi rover
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2015, 10:29:30 am »
You can measure the lift with your dial gauge. Just zero it out and keep turning. 

EGR is a tool used to keep NOx levels down. NOx is a product of combustion temperature and pressure. Different injection profiles will alter those variables. A non-EGR pump either is trying to keep NOx levels down without using EGR or was meant for a market that doesn't have NOx regulations. A different camplate makes sense.


Yeah can't believe that one slipped my mind on the lift lol I'll be tunning it starting next week and I'll have the info on my pump for you! Don't forget time in the NOx production more time would equal more NOx!

Reply #8July 19, 2015, 03:27:01 pm

Tylenol

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Re: Setting static pump timing . 300tdi rover
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2015, 03:27:01 pm »
Checking timming again and came up with 1.87 somehow noticed a little knock was starting to form put it back to 1.54 and now I have no power and my egts are through the roof Cant even drive hwy speeds any one ever have this happen to them? By the way my total lift using my dial gauge said I have a total lift of 2.48  vanbcguy!

Reply #9July 19, 2015, 03:55:16 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: Setting static pump timing . 300tdi rover
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2015, 03:55:16 pm »
Very interesting. High EGTs and low power mean the timing is retarded - sounds like your cam plate shape must be different enough to need more static timing. 
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #10July 19, 2015, 06:04:14 pm

Tylenol

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Re: Setting static pump timing . 300tdi rover
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2015, 06:04:14 pm »
Yeah that's all I can figure it needs I put it at 1.74 and it's running fine again! Haven't got my pulse adapter yet for my timming light but this will put a rush on it since I literally have no idea where my timming is now! Wonder if it could be the race 520 injectors stage 3 with the mod pilot I am running at the moment I know they are supposed to just dump more fuel in a shorter window but maybe the opening pressure was set a little higher hints the need to advance to timing on the engine!?

Reply #11July 20, 2015, 07:47:11 am

vanbcguy

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Re: Setting static pump timing . 300tdi rover
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2015, 07:47:11 am »
Actually that makes a lot of sense. I believe the higher flow ratings are achieved by increasing the main pop pressure, which would definitely take more static timing.
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #12July 20, 2015, 09:23:40 am

Tylenol

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Re: Setting static pump timing . 300tdi rover
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2015, 09:23:40 am »
I'll know more when I get my pulse adapter! But definetly weird I was under the impression that the static timing was kept the same or just slightly increased for the performance aspect, but that's not the case it is much higher if I'm having to run 1.74 or even more when I get the adapter! I'm shooting for 10-12 degrees begore TDC at idle but either way it will be sorted out eventually an I'll give another update on the project. Plus I'm playing with the turbos AR to try and get more boost at lower RPMs to help the higher egts.

Reply #13October 29, 2023, 12:30:30 am

jhax

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Re: Setting static pump timing . 300tdi rover
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2023, 12:30:30 am »
Revisiting this thread... what is the baseline for static EGR LR 300 IP setting? I have stock injectors, this is for a fullly loaded VW T3 high top camper. Injectors are at my discretion.

Cheers,
Justin

 

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