Engine pings

[jettatd97]

Hi, i have a problem with my 97 Diesel Jetta engine code AAZ. It seems that for some reason, sometimes and more often lately, my engine pings. When this happens, i have no power and the engine noise is alot louder than usual. I am definetly not an expert in diesel engines but i fell the pump timming is off. To make it go away, i usualy have to floor the car in hight RPMs, up to 4500, and then *** normaly. it generaly stops after that until next time.

I have been reading this forums for a while and i know there is a piston that set the advance timing, could this be my problem ?

What would make it do this, is it binding or something ?

Is this somethign i could fix with normal tools ? i plan on buyin the tools to do my timming belt soon anyway.

I realy do not want to take it to a garage and have them tell me its going to cost me 800$ to replace the pump. The car work realy good other than that i get 750Km off every tank of fuel.

Thanks guys.

[Wingaman]

You're from Montréal ?

There a lot of diesel at the Julep(Orange Julep sur Décarie près de l'hypodrome de montréal) any Thusday normaly. Check on the Quebec section on TDIClub.

Normaly i'm there to, so i can take a look on your car.

[jettatd97]

Thanks Wingman, is there still people around 10:00 Pm cause that is the earliest i can get there. I work in Lachine an i finish at 21:30....What kind of car do you have so i can know who you are ?

[addautomotive]

if it feels like the timing is going "out" intermittantly, isn't that a symptom of the Dreaded 1.9 Crank Bolt Disease? I bought my car based on the fact that this issue had already been addressed.

If that is the issue, I would be pretty scared of revving it until it goes away again.

If someone suspects that their crank pulley is coming loose, how difficult is it to check, just so you don't have to hold your breath too long?

[jettatd97]

I dont think i would be my crank bolt as i have the 'correct' updated version with the 12 corners. That is one the first things i checked when i bought the car.

Anybody else have an idea, im pretty sure its the timming advance piston in the pump but what could make it bind or get stuck ?

[fspGTD]

First, have you checked the basics IE: non-clogged fuel filter (if excessive air bubbles get fed into the pump's inlet, it would - potentially intermittetly - mess up the functioning of the timing advance system.)

How about your injectors - have you considered removing them, taking them to a diesel specialist and having him inspect how good their quality of spray is?  Sometimes it seems bad injectors spray bad only intermittently.

Finaly, have you tried varying where you get your diesel from and/or trying some cetane-improver like stanadyne performance formula.  Poor cetane and/or crappy fuel will clatter (what you might call "ping") more than a good quality fuel with high cetane level.  Although it seems that this would lead to consistently high diesel clatter noise, not intermittent problem like you state to observe.

I've never heard of anyone actually diagnosing a bad injection pump timing advance piston, but I suppose it's possible if somehow exess dirt were to enter the pump, or perhaps if it were an assembly flaw - could have done it when new.  If it were the case that dirt egress caused the timing advance piston to in it's bore however, I'd not trust the main plunger and it's bore - and would want to probably replace the pump with another good used, or new one.  Even the prospect just to have a diesel specialist tear down, complete inspect the bores / other potential wear points, re-seal as needed, etc (essentially, that's what you call a "rebuild" is a several hundred dollar propostiion not to mention removing and reinstalling the pump.  I'd recommend trying to diagnose it better, IE: rule out the easier stuff, like air bubbles in the fuel line first!

I also would take another look at the 1.9lTD crank bolt issue.  I don't know much about it myself, but intermittent clatter isn't a common problem on 1.6l motors.  It seems mighty coincidential that you've got a 1.9lTD experiencing this particular problem.  Who knows maybe some cut corners when installing the upgraded bolt, or that did not fix the problem.  Perhaps this is why the previous owner decided to sell their car.  How about the updated/later 1.9lTD harmonic balancer pulley - do you have that along with the newer bolt or does the motor still have the earlier harmonic balancer?  I'm just throwing out suggestions as to the 1.9lTD crank bolt issue, but I know from scouring ETKA parts database that there were 2 versions of harmonic balancers available for the 1.9lTDs.

[jettatd97]

First, have you checked the basics IE: non-clogged fuel filter (if excessive air bubbles get fed into the pump's inlet, it would - potentially intermittently - mess up the functioning of the timing advance system.)

The fuel filter has been changed recently. The problem has been occurring before and after the change. I do not see and bubbles in the clear plastic lines.

How about your injectors - have you considered removing them, taking them to a diesel specialist and having him inspect how good their quality of spray is?  Sometimes it seems bad injectors spray bad only intermittently.

I have not had the injectors tested so far. The car start like a champ and does not smoke unless its cold outside. They probably leak a little because if i start the car after 2-3 days of not using it, it puffs a bit more than usual but I am getting very good mileage with the car.

Finaly, have you tried varying where you get your diesel from and/or trying some cetane-improver like stanadyne performance formula.  Poor cetane and/or crappy fuel will clatter (what you might call "ping") more than a good quality fuel with high cetane level.  Although it seems that this would lead to consistently high diesel clatter noise, not intermittent problem like you state to observe.

I don't think its a fuel issue because i get my fuel from the same 2-3 places all the time depending where im running low. There is no pattern to the problem happening. It just happens sometimes when i floor the car in high RPMs to pass or merge. One thing i can say is that the problem occurred allot more often in the winter, specially when it was below -15C.

I've never heard of anyone actually diagnosing a bad injection pump timing advance piston, but I suppose it's possible if somehow exess dirt were to enter the pump, or perhaps if it were an assembly flaw - could have done it when new.  If it were the case that dirt egress caused the timing advance piston to in it's bore however, I'd not trust the main plunger and it's bore - and would want to probably replace the pump with another good used, or new one.  Even the prospect just to have a diesel specialist tear down, complete inspect the bores / other potential wear points, re-seal as needed, etc (essentially, that's what you call a "rebuild" is a several hundred dollar propostiion not to mention removing and reinstalling the pump.  I'd recommend trying to diagnose it better, IE: rule out the easier stuff, like air bubbles in the fuel line first!

I ma very knowledgeable in car mechanics as that what i used to do for 5 years before i recycled myself in computers. How easy or hard would it be for me to crack open the two cover and see if the piston moves freely ? Can it be done with the pump on the car ? I am planning on buying the tools to do my timing belt because i don't know when it was last done. I could then remove the pump completely at that time. Are they any seals that need to be replaced when i open the covers, i yes, where can i get them online ?

I always try to look on eBAY for injection pumps for 1.9 but never seem to find anything. There are plenty for 1.6. Could i use a 1.6 pump on my 1.9, what are the differences between the two ?

I also would take another look at the 1.9lTD crank bolt issue.  I don't know much about it myself, but intermittent clatter isn't a common problem on 1.6l motors.  It seems mighty coincidential that you've got a 1.9lTD experiencing this particular problem.  Who knows maybe some cut corners when installing the upgraded bolt, or that did not fix the problem.  Perhaps this is why the previous owner decided to sell their car.  How about the updated/later 1.9lTD harmonic balancer pulley - do you have that along with the newer bolt or does the motor still have the earlier harmonic balancer?  I'm just throwing out suggestions as to the 1.9lTD crank bolt issue, but I know from scouring ETKA parts database that there were 2 versions of harmonic balancers available for the 1.9lTDs.

How would i check this ? Can i just take out the bolt and check the keyway for wear. How can i tell if i have the updated harmonic balancer ?

Sorry for the long post, but i want to fix this before winter because like i said, i worst when its cold.

Thanks a million.

[andy2]

does the balancer have any sort of wobble to it at idle and seem to straighten out when reved up slightly. another quick crank check ,remove the plug on top of the transmission to see the flywheel then turn over the engine using the alternator go back and forth to see if both the balancer and the flywheel turn together if the key is worn on crank sproket the bolt is usually always loose so you can notice any play there ,but make sure you verify that the crank end is ok before any timming adjustments are made ,otherwise if there is a crank issue then correcting the timming would ony cover up the ticking time bomb so to speek.hope this helps

[Wingaman]

Thanks Wingman, is there still people around 10:00 Pm cause that is the earliest i can get there. I work in Lachine an i finish at 21:30....What kind of car do you have so i can know who you are ?

Thusday(17 august) i will be there. I alway wear a black VWFixx.Com t-shirt and my car is a Charcoal Jetta A2. Here a pics of my tractor (car): http://wingaman.monchar.com.

My cell phone number is 450-567-8674, So you can call me before you quit your job to be sure i'm there. (I speak french, my english is not very good).

Take care

[RAMMSTEIN]

I'll be there to translate if need be guys.

Six years in English school has to be usefull somewhere...

[jettatd97]

Pas de probleme, je parle francais...c juste quil y a plus de reponse sur le forum anglais...

Wingman, je vais t'appeler mardis...

[Wingaman]

Parfait. Si je ne suis pas au Julep quand tu vas arrivé, lache moi un coup de fil et je vais y être dans une 10zaine de minutes plus tard. Je ne devrais pas être loin. (Genre Verdun/Pointe-St-Charles).

Hey en passant Rammtein, Il a une nouvelle station de gaz Maxi&Cie qui ont du diesel a coté de la station Canadian tire a Verdun sur Wellington asteur. Je sais pas si c'est du Irving ?

[jettatd97]

Cool, je dvrais etre la avant 10:00 heures, je pars de lachine vers 9:30. Esperont seulement que je peux lui faire le moteur pingner, ca arrive pas tout le temp...