IP prime / bottle feed procedures - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• IP prime / bottle feed procedures by Rock3tman on 17 Oct, 2014 07:42
• What are the best priming/bottle feed procedures for 1.6TD?   
  
  I've used mityvac at the IP bleed screw after filling the new filter and also using it at the return line OUT barb from the IP to the tank. No fuel either into clear line or out from filter housing. 
  
  Repeated cranking is enough to cause oil pressure light to go out, but still no fuel showing up at IP inlet clear line. Thx
• #1 by libbydiesel on 17 Oct, 2014 07:52
• Replace the OUT bolt with a second IN bolt temporarily while pulling the vacuum.
• #2 by nissannx on 17 Oct, 2014 07:58
• I was able to fill my fuel filter with diesel, then crack all the injector lines at the injectors. Crank until diesel comes out, tighting lines, start car, go for a rip
• #3 by RabbitJockey on 17 Oct, 2014 08:03
• usually if i remove the "out" bolt and fill the pump through that hole, it will start almost immediately(also fill the fuel filter.)  I don't think that cracking the injector lines makes much of a difference.  i don't have a vacuum pump, and i have always had good luck doing this, except for once when my glow plug fuse blew and i didn't realize it haha.
• #4 by burn_your_money on 19 Oct, 2014 05:31
• Are you sure you have 12v at the stop solenoid when cranking?
• #5 by 745 turbogreasel on 19 Oct, 2014 15:38
• I plug in  my  electric pump and count to 3.
• #6 by Rock3tman on 20 Oct, 2014 18:13
• Thanks for all the help to get this new rebuild back on the road.   Today I put an old Bendix ($20) lift pump before the filter that looks just like the facet GoldFlo pump - wired to the IP shutoff solenoid - and:
  
  1) got all the air out of the new clear line (filter to injection pump), and
  2) cracked the four lines at injectors, cranked till all wet, then tightened.
  
  ...still no start.    Battery is new and fully charged, starter spins the engine fast, the injection pump is timed at .98, glow plugs are used but checked good (glowed red hot), pimped 8 ga. glowplug wire harness with 100 amp solenoid, etc.  Timing advance knob on dash pulled, throttle held to floor when cranking, and I cycle the glowplugs 2 to 3 times.
  
  Exhaust is loose at downpipe, and I get quite a bit of blue smoke there and it smells like unburned diesel.  Still not a hint of a cylinder firing though.
  
  Any thoughts for what to do next?   (Libby: wasn't able to get another "IN" banjo bolt yet, but don't think its an issue after lift pump install)
• #7 by RabbitJockey on 20 Oct, 2014 18:26
• i don't think id pull the advance knob, how long have you cranked it for? they can be pretty stubborn on first cranks.  what all was done to the car?
• #8 by Rock3tman on 20 Oct, 2014 20:22
• Stock engine & trans out; ARP rod bolt &  headstuds, new Kolbenschmidt .50 over pistons, all rotating parts balanced to 1 gram, redi-certs on crank and intermediate shaft seals, new VNT-15 turbo for an ALH, rebuilt head with all new TRW valves, guides, springs, etc., rebuilt FN transmission with stock gears, new german syncro rings, cryo treated needle bearings from Brian @ brokevw, full peloquin LSD, NOS 3.67 r+p, frozenboost AWIC, TDI crank sprocket and serp belt for 70A alternator and water pump, larger oil cooler  from a Touareg, etc.
  
  Relayed headlights, rear brakes from backing plates out, new front pads+rotors, repacked CV joints, new radiator+fan, EGT/Boost gauge from Westach, VDO oil temp, oil press, volt gauges, catch can from 42draft design, new parking brake, clutch, speedo cables, etc.
• #9 by Rock3tman on 21 Oct, 2014 06:32
• <RabbitJockey>  More relevantly to my 'no start' situation:
  
  I replaced all flexible fuel lines with a set of Viton lines from Greaseworks.  It only has the line from fuel filter to IP as a clear one - all
  other lines are solid black. I have hose clamps on all lines, including the injector return lines - no air now in clear line with lift pump installed.   Rebuild has taken four years, so at the beginning I filled the IP with ATF for storage.   Didn't drain it out, now I'm getting diesel at the injectors.   Timed pump to .98 while on the engine stand, it was my first time, but I think I got it right using Libbydiesel and Vince Weldon tips (engine turns over pretty quickly and smoothly with starter and no untoward noises of interference when I hand wratcheted the crank a few revolutions before start attempts.   
  
  I've cranked a total of 3 minutes in 10 second bursts over four/five days with battery charging after each 5-6 attempts or so.   Oil pressure light goes out after first 6-7 seconds of first attempt, so I'm assuming that the oil system is OK.  Should I get ready for a pull srat yet or is there something else for me to check?   thanks
• #10 by vanbcguy on 21 Oct, 2014 06:51
• 10 seconds is not a long time to be cranking.
  
  Any smoke or fuel vapor out the exhaust?
• #11 by Rock3tman on 08 Nov, 2014 06:59
• Yes, on a 15-20 second cranking there's a pretty good sized cloud of blue smoke that comes out of my downpipe (disconnected) and smells like raw fuel.   The exhaust sound slightly changes when I step on/off the throttle when it's cranking.  The IP hasn't been opened or throttle arm removed since it ran before rebuild.
  
  The oil pressure light and flashing light on the fuel gauge go out so I think the wiring is good enough to start.   My lift pump is powered temporarily off the fuel cutoff solenoid and I can easily hear my 100A glow plug solenoid click when it's power is cut.
  
  I'll try to make a short video an post
• #12 by 745 turbogreasel on 08 Nov, 2014 11:30
• You have no bubbles in the return now?
  confirmed with a test light that glow plugs and stop solenoid get power at the appropriate times?
  You timed to .98 Metric not English right  Yeah, I did that.
  
  Often  after  sitting, I find cranking speed is more crucial than ever, and  jumper cables from a running vehicle help put it over the top.
• #13 by air-cooled or diesel on 08 Nov, 2014 12:15
• if you have starter speed; air in (intake lines intercooler,etc)are clear;fuel at injectors, exhaust smell is somewhat good, better is getting it to run; the only other thing is compression. glow plugs is the most likely thing to check; other than mm measurement @inj pump.you can run a good sized wire direct to glow plug rail.
• #14 by Rock3tman on 08 Nov, 2014 13:22
• Firstly, thanks to all for the help to get this beast awaken from the dead...answers to today's suggestions:
  
  1) I don't exactly know if there are any bubbles in the return - it has a new Viton (solid black) line from Greaseworks from Injection pump to tank return & new Viton lines between injectors and back to IP.   After adding lift pump, the line from filter to IP has no bubbles and the pump slows way down when powered up by "on" ignition position after 3 to 4 seconds.  I put clamps on all lines including the little ones on the injectors.  I blew on the return line and heard bubbles in the tank, so no obstruction there.  Fuel is getting to the injectors when they're cracked open.
  
  2) I have not tested glowplugs with test light, but have "pimped" with 4ga from battery to solenoid(60A fuse), and 8ga from solenoid to each plug (20A fuse).  Glowplugs were tested before installed and they glowed red hot with 12V.   I just put a jumper from the stop solenoid to a lift pump (temporarily installed), I know the stop solenoid sees power and there's fuel smell/blue smoke and fuel when its cranked over - I believe this tells me its getting fuel...
  
  3) I'm pretty sure it's timed to .98 metric (checked twice when installing pump on motor), the IP mount bolts are ~approx. in the middle of their slots at the nose of the pump. Wrench on sprocket turned over engine with no apparent interference and I thought I could feel the compression in the cylinders when rotated 4 to 5 times around.
  
  4) it's not just been sitting, it's an initial start from a full rebuild - - I'll try an additional battery, but it's a brand new 850CCV group 65.  1/2 tank of fresh fuel, stored IP filled with ATF and getting just diesel at injectors now (no pink fuel at all)
  
  5) Starter speed seems normal for at least first minute of attempts, then I recharge battery at 10A for awhile.  Compression I hope is good, that was the point of the rebuild - new KS pistons first oversize, rebuild head with all new parts, including prechambers.
  
  still seeking suggestions - keep 'em coming.   And still need to post a video...any thoughts on taking it for a drag to start?