-
Can a VR6 be made into a TD? no... seriously
by
Mechdonald
on 24 Mar, 2006 10:26
-
Can a VR6 be made into a TD – seriously
I have posted this question for discussion in VWVortex and had some good response and some negative. (Thanks Malone and others for helpful info)
Please forgive me if this has already been addressed on this forum – I did a quick search with no results – (there is the guy that asked what his mileage would be if he swapped his sparkplugs with injectors…)
Just wanted to throw this question to this board as there seems to be a lot more qualified/experienced members hanging out here.
So, the question is:
What all would be involved in converting a VR6 to an IDI (n/a first, then TD) ?
Most of the work would be on the cylinder head, ie, rework to add a prechamber, cam timing, custom pistons, etc.
The head is already flat (no combustion chamber) so that helps. Is there room in a VR6 head for the prechamber?
What would be the valve timing of a diesel compared to a gasser?
Are custom pistons and camshafts outrageously expensive?
Would a injector pump from a 2.4 Volvo engine work? I would imagine the timing of the pump would have to altered (inline 6 compared to 15 degree V6)
Or alternatively, can something like this be controlled with Megasquirt? Isn’t there someone on this board attempting this?
Would an aftermarket vr6 turbo kit (fairly common these days) be modified to fit a better suited turbo?
As you can see, there are many unanswered questions.
Any helpful input is welcomed
-
#1
by
RabbitJockey
on 24 Mar, 2006 10:34
-
it'd be easier to make it an mTDI, as adding pre cups would probably be a pita. it think it would be possible, but it would rack quite a machine shop bill, and it would be kind of lame, since what i've learned in the past is that diesels are made differently from gas engines, so even after all the head work, who's to say it will hold up.
-
#2
by
RabbitJockey
on 24 Mar, 2006 10:35
-
there are also other types of injector pumps, vws have centrifugal pumps, i forget what the other kind is called but it works a little different.
-
#3
by
BlackTieTD
on 24 Mar, 2006 11:11
-
volvo offered a 6-cyl diesel that is essentially a VW 4-cyl IDI with 2 extra cylinders. i'd look into that.
-
#4
by
jtanguay
on 24 Mar, 2006 14:03
-
volvo offered a 6-cyl diesel that is essentially a VW 4-cyl IDI with 2 extra cylinders. i'd look into that.
could possibly fit in a mk2
would be nice for a veggie conversion with lots of power
-
#5
by
vwmike
on 24 Mar, 2006 15:17
-
I'd look more at the inline 5 cylinder diesel from an Audi. I think it would be more likely to fit. I see cylinder 20v RS2 engines mounted transversely using a Eurovan transmission, so why not?
Other than that, I think I'd have to agree with the others. This project is doable, but at what cost? Making it a TDI would be much easier than making it an IDI. You'd have to find some other nozzles with the correct spray angle and then I would try and use the TDI injector bodes. Add in some pistons with a swirl chamber and in theory it should work.
My concerns mirror that of the others. We have no way of knowing how durable this engine would be. I'm going to guess you'd have less than wonderful mileage. A 1.9 TDI would probably also offer you more power potential than you need as well as superior mileage, cheaper initial investment, increased reliability, and the added benefit of being able to buy parts right off the shelf. All of these things just make this project prohibitive in my opinion.
-
#6
by
jtanguay
on 24 Mar, 2006 15:30
-
I'd look more at the inline 5 cylinder diesel from an Audi. I think it would be more likely to fit. I see cylinder 20v RS2 engines mounted transversely using a Eurovan transmission, so why not?
Other than that, I think I'd have to agree with the others. This project is doable, but at what cost? Making it a TDI would be much easier than making it an IDI. You'd have to find some other nozzles with the correct spray angle and then I would try and use the TDI injector bodes. Add in some pistons with a swirl chamber and in theory it should work.
My concerns mirror that of the others. We have no way of knowing how durable this engine would be. I'm going to guess you'd have less than wonderful mileage. A 1.9 TDI would probably also offer you more power potential than you need as well as superior mileage, cheaper initial investment, increased reliability, and the added benefit of being able to buy parts right off the shelf. All of these things just make this project prohibitive in my opinion.
I'd say its doable. Just because GM has converted gas motors to diesel before, but it must have cost them a lot for research and development.
-
#7
by
RabbitJockey
on 24 Mar, 2006 15:31
-
i've heard really good things about the 6 cyl in volvos from the volvo guys, apparently they're monsters. on another topic of vw motors in other peoples cars, theres a guy around here that wants to put a g60 in a dodge omni, that tear some *** up, and it would bolt right in hehe.
-
#8
by
lord_verminaard
on 25 Mar, 2006 05:03
-
Even custom pistons for the VR are pretty cheap, as they are really the only internal that is needed to be changed for big power. EIP makes 600 hp turbo VR's all day, usually all that is changed internally are pistons. If a gasser VR can handle 30 psi and 600 hp, A diesel should be able to handle 25 psi or so with around 200 hp. Again, like others, the head work would be the hardest, as you would need to make a hole for glow plugs as well as injectors. I'd probably start with TDI injectors as there is no need for a pre-chamber. (but the pistons would need "chambers" to work properly.
I thought I read somewhere that VW was playing with a TDI VR6 at one point? Wonder what happened with it?
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49
-
#9
by
DVST8R
on 25 Mar, 2006 10:18
-
It's only money, with enough of it anything is possible. :wink:
-
#10
by
Baxter
on 25 Mar, 2006 12:52
-
Just get a V6 TDI, much easier.
The Volvo motor you speak of is actually a VW LT motor, search for LT28, LT30, LT35, LT40, LT45, LT50 and the daddy, the LT55.
Numbers represent gross weight.
But, the Volvo motor with the intercooler produces the most power, a Nice conversion for the truck is to fit the Volvo motor, my mates LT50 recovery truck had it don, 'parently it flew!
-
#11
by
GTD.
on 26 Mar, 2006 01:12
-
No idea but at a guess you,d need a custom crank, conrods, pistons and cams, possibly an uprated headgasket? do vr6,s have oil squirters?, gonna have to fit glowplugs somehow too with a hefty glowplug controller to get it up to temp? are vr,s direct injection? I really dont know that much about them.
Would be interesting as a project i suppose
-
#12
by
Blades
on 26 Mar, 2006 01:47
-
I've head some dealers doc that the VR6 was supposed to be available in diesel too.
Pretty sure that's why it has a flat head.
-
#13
by
barry_the_panda
on 26 Mar, 2006 09:29
-
why dont u jst put in a petrol vr6?
-
#14
by
vwmike
on 26 Mar, 2006 11:02
-
why dont u jst put in a petrol vr6?
I'm guessing he's just trying to be different. Besides, a VR6 swap is kind of pointless unless it is turbo'd/supercharged.