Crank Bolt Tango....Getting sick of this dance. - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• Crank Bolt Tango....Getting sick of this dance. by Enslaved_Pickle on 07 Aug, 2014 08:11
• So, this happened. I've caught it before disaster but I'm getting sick of this.
  Opinions needed.
  
  The engine in question,
  
  
  So the story is that I bout this engine with 220,000 kilometers on it, everything worked as it should except for a pretty big pump leak out of the head seal. I bout a new seal kit and replaced the seals, and I bout a new crank bolt and torqued it with red Loctite.
  
  I've since put 30,000 kilometers on the engine. It recently started running rough, and for a while I thought this was due to timing belt stretch and I thought I would just retime and be on my merry way. The case was not so.
  
  I check on the crank bolt about once a week, and this week when I looked under the car I saw this
  
  
  I immediately put the car in neutral and started tearing things apart.
  
  .
  
  
  After a half hour with a hammer and file the crank looks like this
  
  
  Now, I'm considering my options and would like opinions.
  
  The plan is to put a new crank sprocket on today with a new bolt and no red Loctite this time, however, I know this is going to happen again down the road and would like a solution before winter.
  
  1.) Install new crank sprocket and bolt and install alternator with clutched pulley- But How long can I expect it to last with an already weakened crank nose?
  
  2.) Find someone willing to do the work and trade it to them for a 1.6td turned na and throw that in, no more serp belt, less power, no more problems?
  
  3.) find a tdi and swap that in. but I'm keeping my 020 in as I hate cable shift, so now I need to beef up the tranny.
  
  4.) Vr6 swap, again beefed up 020 required. loss of mileage would hurt.... but that sound <3 Highly unlikely option, but is a thought.
  
  5.) swap the crank to tdi, But then I would have to rebuild the entire engine since I would have it apart and at that point would it be worth it?
  
  Most of the above options would be difficult as I don't have a garage right now, nor the time to rebuild an engine.
  
  I'm leaning towards trading it to someone on here who is willing to swap to a tdi crank or at least replace the current one. Someone with a 1.6td turned na since I like things simple and a turbo is just another thing that could go wrong, and I fancy oil squirters.
  
  This engine has been great, getting between 49-55 mpg "Canadian" over the last 35 tanks or so, no smoke, starts fine in -20f weather
  
  What do you guys think?
• #1 by vanbcguy on 07 Aug, 2014 08:15
• You can machine the crank to accept the TDI pulley.  That in combination with the clutched alternator pulley will solve your issues permanently.
  
  I believe Giles at Performance Diesel can do the crank pulley conversion with the engine still in the car - no need for a rebuild.  He's in your neck of the woods.  You'd still have to dolly the car there or get it towed but that'd be a lot simpler than the other options you've listed.
• #2 by TylerDurden on 07 Aug, 2014 16:25
• You  can also pin the sprocket to the crank.
  
  Pic is a TDI, but the ID can be pinned the same way.
  
  
  
  http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=318602
• #3 by Rabbit79 on 08 Aug, 2014 20:11
• Here's a good write-up on how to pin the crank:
  http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=13828.0
  
  There also used to be a good write-up on how to machine the crank nose to accept the TDI sprocket while it's still in the car. I thought it was in the FAQ/Tech Tips page but I didn't see it in there. IIRC Libby wrote it so you might check through his posts.
• #4 by Gizmoman on 08 Aug, 2014 21:21
• Personally I wouldn't run any engine with the crank in that condition - at least not more than a short drive to someone who could fix it properly - Giles perhaps.
  
  IMO, once you do the "D" you don't need to pin it.
  I agree with you on the loctite - very bad choice for this application. The face of the crank and the face of the pulley are designed to be steel on steel and spotlessly clean. The huge amount of torque (using a new bolt) mashes the surfaces together so it won't spin. The proper torque spec/procedure turns the bolt into a massive spring within a range that maintains the contact between the two mating faces. I'm not saying it's a great design to begin with, but mine was fine when I took it apart. I still did the "D" and used a new TDI sprocket on the rebuild - but then I had the crank out.
  
  Having loctite between those surfaces is like greasing them up first. The tiny key does little but under the proper spec, it worked. It's folks using the bolt twice, not cleaning things with brake cleaner or the like or not torquing the bolt properly that makes the design fail.
  
  I know libby designed an in-place procedure using a broach and IIRC, Giles was involved as well (?)
  
  
• #5 by carrizog60 on 09 Aug, 2014 03:16
• for what i remember the bolt is not a tight fit on the pulley,that also helps with it going loose.
  usually here(portugal)were those engines were very common,the machine shop make a "sleeve" to take all the slack on the bolt,and usually it solves the question.
• #6 by Syncroincity on 09 Aug, 2014 16:34
• A clutched alternator pulley will help; the serp belt is actually what causes this condition; the inertia of the spinning alternator when the engine slows down hammers on the keyway of the crank pulley. But the damage is done, I'd be leery of driving it any great distance like that.
• #7 by Enslaved_Pickle on 10 Aug, 2014 05:28
• For the price of getting the crank machined i'd rather put a 1.6 in it and just rebuild and swap the crank at a later date. I put the new sprocket on "which fit snugly with no play, for now".
  
  I bout a clutched alternator pulley in the past the part number ended in "c" if i remember and it wrecked my alternator shaft. Before i order another, can anyone confirm that this pulley
  028 903 119AA is the correct pulley for a bosch 90a alt part# 028 903 025 Q ?
  
  Just want to be sure before i spend another $80
• #8 by theman53 on 10 Aug, 2014 07:17
• You are aware of what happens if that crank sprocket lets go right?
• #9 by Gizmoman on 10 Aug, 2014 07:55
• Quote from: Enslaved_Pickle on 10 Aug, 2014 05:28

  For the price of getting the crank machined i'd rather put a 1.6 in it and just rebuild and swap the crank at a later date. I put the new sprocket on "which fit snugly with no play, for now".
  
  I bout a clutched alternator pulley in the past the part number ended in "c" if i remember and it wrecked my alternator shaft. Before i order another, can anyone confirm that this pulley
  028 903 119AA is the correct pulley for a bosch 90a alt part# 028 903 025 Q ?
  
  Just want to be sure before i spend another $80
  

  Someone here used an angle grinder and a file and reported success with the fit. You'll need seasoned metal working skills and patience, but have something trustworthy. If you insist on putting it back like it is, use a new bolt at least and torque it to spec with a quality torque wrench. FWIW, a properly tensioned V-belt provides similar "cushioning" with less complexity. Sorry, can't help with the clutched pulley part number.
• #10 by Enslaved_Pickle on 10 Aug, 2014 14:00
• Quote from: theman53 on 10 Aug, 2014 07:17

  You are aware of what happens if that crank sprocket lets go right?
  

  
  Yup thats why we put a new bolt in when i got it and i put another new one in with the new sprocket, 66 ft lbs and additional 90degrees   It'll hold for at least 1.5 years like the previous one did, longer with the pulley, i don't plan to have it in the car that long.
• #11 by Syncroincity on 13 Aug, 2014 16:52
• That was me with the grinder & file, but the crank was out at the time. Took it REAL slow on that operation.