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Vanagon 50º K14 drain angle
by
Gnarlodious
on 09 Jun, 2014 17:43
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I’m getting ready to put a turbo on my new 1Y Vanagon engine. This turbo and exhaust manifold is off of a ’91 Jetta 1.6TD:
Holding it up at the angle it will bolt on, I see the turbo needs to be rotated so the oil drain is at vertex (blue line). This causes the drain to fall inconveniently behind the wastegate actuator. What kind of plumbing do I need to get the oil out?
Or is there a more radical solution? Putting it on upside down, or what? I understand it doesn’t matter what direction the oil flows.
The original drain pipe looks like this:
The pipe screws in to the turbo housing with M16x1.5 threading. The outlet is threaded with M20x1.5 convex. A 19mm wrench screws the pipe down. This is the standard oil drain on the ’91 1.6TD Jetta. I have a female AN6 fitting to weld on to get rid of the obsolete metric hydraulic fitting but after looking at the clocking angle I am not sure what to do. Please advise.
In addition, there is a problematic bolt which I discovered upon loosening it to rotate:
See how the bolt head is in such a tight spot and not reachable by normal tools. What’s the trick for getting this thing loose? Mutilate a 13mm closed wrench? Special German tool?
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#1
by
theman53
on 09 Jun, 2014 20:24
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Libbydiesel would be the one that has done this before. Also search Gizmoman as he had this K14 on his before he went holset.
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#2
by
TimpanogosSlim
on 09 Jun, 2014 21:35
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If nothing else, an M16 to -6 AN fitting is pretty easy to come by, for the turbo side. from there it's a custom -6 AN hose with a right angle on at least one end, no?
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#3
by
vanbcguy
on 09 Jun, 2014 21:53
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For most turbos it does in fact matter which way the oil flows. If you try and feed pressurized oil in to the drain it will spew out in to the compressor / turbine rather than lubricating the bearing.
Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk
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#4
by
Gnarlodious
on 09 Jun, 2014 22:32
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OK now I’m getting some answers. Scratch that backwards oil flow idea! The M16 to -6 AN fitting is probably going to be too big in there to get a wrench on. Gizmo’s banjo solution looks like custom tube brazing. Libby’s 45º barb looks like the most workable, but I think it would require total disassembly to tap out the drain hole. Unless I could weld a barb fitting onto the existing M16 threaded pipe. Hmmm…
Still a mystery is how to get the nasty bolt loose to rotate the turbo. Should I just take it to a machine shop?
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#5
by
TimpanogosSlim
on 09 Jun, 2014 22:49
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Suggestion for awkward bolt head: Get a cheap 12-point box end wrench the right size (might have to buy a set at harbor freight, crappy tire, princess otto, etc), use angle grinder to cut a chunk of the box off so that you can slip it in sideways. This is how bar operators and homebrewers who are too cheap to buy the special wrench for a tower faucet lock not get their lock nuts tightened. Particularly since when you see the special wrench, it's blazingly obvious that they took a box-end wrench and cut a chunk out.
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#6
by
libbydiesel
on 09 Jun, 2014 23:03
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I'm not sure what you mean when you say it doesn't matter which way the oil flows. It has to flow down the drain. Any impediment to that gravity flow will cause a tremendous amount of oil to flow into the intake and exhaust. The axis of the supply and drain should be as close to vertical as possible. 15° max out of vertical...
I have tapped several K14s without disassembling them but great care is required. My method is to clamp the turbo in the vice so the drain faces directly down. Then grease up the tap thoroughly and run a few turns. Back it out. Clean off the metal bits. Regrease, lather, rinse and repeat... When finished, flush the center section thoroughly, although with the aforementioned precautions I've never gotten any bits inside the turbo. Great care also has to be taken to tap it to the correct depth.
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#7
by
Gizmoman
on 10 Jun, 2014 06:31
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I was able to custom make a banjo bolt that fit but found after all that work I discovered
any restriction in flow causes the oil to enter the compressor and coat the intercooler and the rest of the intake. The banjo created a sharp 90 through the four small ports and that's too much restriction.
Libby's concept is the way to go unless you want more than 18 PSI and cooler EGT's - then get a holset
.
The holset on a 50 degree AAZ is a bit of work as well but it's great turbo
If you have an hour or so, here's my retro-fit
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=34468.0Again, it's all about ZERO restrictions in the oil flow. Not only did the banjo bolt cause them, I found that even after removing the banjo and making a new pipe swept elbow chingus, the PO had tigged a #6 AN fitting to the pan. (Note, #6 AN is much smaller than %6 JIC) It was less than 3/8" ID! I ended up welding up the hole where the fitting was and making a new one that was 5/8" ID.
From the thread I posted above
Cheers
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#8
by
libbydiesel
on 10 Jun, 2014 07:06
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Also, how are you dealing with the interference between the driver's side aluminum mount bracket and the turbo wastegate?
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#9
by
Gnarlodious
on 10 Jun, 2014 07:26
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I’m not enough of a mechanic to do the install myself, Andrew. How about I drive cross country and have you do it for me? I’m paying cash.
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#10
by
TimpanogosSlim
on 10 Jun, 2014 11:41
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Again, it's all about ZERO restrictions in the oil flow. Not only did the banjo bolt cause them, I found that even after removing the banjo and making a new pipe swept elbow chingus, the PO had tigged a #6 AN fitting to the pan. (Note, #6 AN is much smaller than %6 JIC) It was less than 3/8" ID! I ended up welding up the hole where the fitting was and making a new one that was 5/8" ID.
My k03 has a sub-3/8" oil outlet on it. The drain fitting i bought - nipple with flange and gasket - is 5/8.
So this little hole is gonna dump oil into a 5/8" barb, then 5/8" hydraulic hose for about 6 inches, and then into a 5/8 barb to 3/8 npt fitting, and a 3/8" 45 degree, and into the sump.
I Really hope that will work, anyway.
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#11
by
libbydiesel
on 10 Jun, 2014 13:02
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Again, it's all about ZERO restrictions in the oil flow. Not only did the banjo bolt cause them, I found that even after removing the banjo and making a new pipe swept elbow chingus, the PO had tigged a #6 AN fitting to the pan. (Note, #6 AN is much smaller than %6 JIC) It was less than 3/8" ID! I ended up welding up the hole where the fitting was and making a new one that was 5/8" ID.
My k03 has a sub-3/8" oil outlet on it. The drain fitting i bought - nipple with flange and gasket - is 5/8.
So this little hole is gonna dump oil into a 5/8" barb, then 5/8" hydraulic hose for about 6 inches, and then into a 5/8 barb to 3/8 npt fitting, and a 3/8" 45 degree, and into the sump.
I Really hope that will work, anyway.
Measure the diameter of the drain hole at the bottom of your K03. Don't use any component that is a smaller ID than that and you'll be good to go...
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#12
by
Gnarlodious
on 10 Jun, 2014 17:04
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My understanding of the AN standard is that all components are measured as ID, which means fluid flow is consistent through the system. So AN-6 is 3/8 ID everywhere. The drain tube I pictured above measures at .4”, which is a hair over 3/8, which is why I chose AN6 drainage. I’m glad Gizmoman updated his banjo-bolt results, because that doesn’t look like good drainage.
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#13
by
Gizmoman
on 10 Jun, 2014 17:27
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My understanding of the AN standard is that all components are measured as ID, which means fluid flow is consistent through the system. So AN-6 is 3/8 ID everywhere. The drain tube I pictured above measures at .4”, which is a hair over 3/8, which is why I chose AN6 drainage. I’m glad Gizmoman updated his banjo-bolt results, because that doesn’t look like good drainage.
Just for the record, in the photo, the K-14 is on the left and also upside down. The banjo bolt you see is the one for the oil inlet. The other pipe with the #6 JIC fitting (which will accept a #6 AN female) is the "swept chingus" I mentioned in my earlier post.
As for the #6 AN fitting welded to the pan, I checked it with an inside mic and it was less than .375. IIRC, more like .,32". Possibly a bit of junk the PO had laying around.
As long as the OP has fitting ID's larger than the base drain fitting ID and no sharp bends to impede flow, there should be no issues, It's also important that the hose never drops lower than the fitting on the pan. A continuous grade down-hill is the ticket.
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#14
by
Gnarlodious
on 10 Jun, 2014 19:18
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I don’t know what a “chingus” is but in my neck of the words chinga has a special meaning!
Seriously, I imagine you mean the bent-out-of shape pipe. You presumably install it while the turbo is in pieces.
I measure the original JX metal pipe at less than 3/8 (21/64 to be exact), while AN6 measures at exactly 3/8. Are you saying I may need AN8 (½”ID) to get proper drainage? How much oil flows through the bearing, anyway?
Your chingus pipe, is it the bent original drain pipe pictured above or a NPT pipe with hex nut welded on?