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Rebuilt injectors not firing
by
sgnimj96
on 06 May, 2014 09:29
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cranking over my 1.6 CR n/a engine after installing my injectors and nothing out of the tail pipe. Lines are very bled, fuel comes out at the fittings quick when loosened and engine cranked, no air in the pump. The pump seems to pull fuel well but I mityvac'd it anyway and then even set a fuel can on a ladder to gravity feed the system. Not a single cylinder has fired. I crank it let the starter cool and batt charge again and again and nothing.
The old injectors popped between 1500-1800 psi (checked right after removal) , car started easy but didn't idle well and the economy was less than average.
I set the new nozzled injectors to just under 2000 psi so they would have some "wear" room. I advance IP timing to 1.00 from .90 thinking that should help, even tried using the cold start but the weather is warm. No difference, not even a puff.
Do I need to:
lower the pop pressure on my injectors
increase internal pump regulator pressure
somthing else?
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#1
by
vanbcguy
on 06 May, 2014 10:58
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Probably neither... The pump internal pressure controls advance, not injector popping. The pop pressure you have is definitely not too high either.
If you have fuel at the injector unions then timing is really the only thing it could be.
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#2
by
sgnimj96
on 06 May, 2014 11:40
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The timing can't be far off because it was running before, although I know the new pop pressure will alter the timing.
Double checked the the timing because I did loosen the belt tensioner a bit because I couldn't twist the belt 90 deg. . ,wanted to make sure I don't stress the old belt with the new injectors. But then I checked the cam/flywheel with the valve cover off the be safe. Also checked the pump timing w/ dial indicator and later advanced it about .10 mm .
Wouldn't I still get some smoke out of the tail pipe even if the timing was off ?
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#3
by
air-cooled or diesel
on 06 May, 2014 12:08
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try using the cold start and glowing first, although if you have fuel going in i figure some kind of smoke would make its way out. even at 70f you need to glow,some,. try that first, if when you crank you have fuel coming out of injector lines, you have part of it right there, what i mean is, only a few things need to come together to get these motors going; timing is it on? if so air must be able to come thru intake to cylinders, fuel must be injected, and engine must crank over, also you need pre-heat or glow/cold start to get her going.
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#4
by
sgnimj96
on 06 May, 2014 13:29
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Well, um... I have been using the glow plugs and the cold start, but thanks, I know these are the questions. I hope they keep coming because this is a strange one.
I must be messing up somewhere(s)...
one major screw up was leaving my glow plugs on too long (left my remote switch on) and fried 3 of the 4.
So had to replace those before doing a real start after priming the lines. Could I have damaged anything from leaving a glow plug stuck on for too long? The only plug that survived had a loose connection.
I even tried spraying wd-40 in the intake before and during cranking and - nothing. There's a little bit of smoke/vapor in the tailpipe when I look with a flashlight but nothing I can really see otherwise. Doesn't even have much of a smell.
might have to pull the injectors.... what else can I possibly try?
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#5
by
vanbcguy
on 06 May, 2014 13:59
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Yeah you mentioned you'd changed the timing, but I wasn't sure how far you'd gone - ie if the belt were off all bets are off, but if you were just adjusting the pump a bit, not as likely.
You can try one of QuantumMan's tricks - connect the injector lines + injectors to the pump upside down (ie injectors pointing straight in the air) and cranking - you should get fuel misting from each of them, that will rule out any issues with the injectors themselves.
If the timing is sufficiently off you might not get much of anything - I was getting some white haze from mine when my timing was out by 1 cylinder, but that was with an open turbo.
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#6
by
sgnimj96
on 06 May, 2014 23:52
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You can try one of QuantumMan's tricks - connect the injector lines + injectors to the pump upside down (ie injectors pointing straight in the air) and cranking - you should get fuel misting from each of them, that will rule out any issues with the injectors themselves
Wow, that sounds interesting. I guess there's no other way - kinda weird and messy though.
I do have some used injectors (that I bought as cores) I could pop check and swap in there. Kinda of backpeddling with that idea though, I suppose...
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#7
by
theman53
on 07 May, 2014 04:54
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did you break the 12v wire going to the shut off on the pump? I would check the easiest thing first, 12v with the key on cranking. Then move on from there. Lots can happen when you loosen the lines to time the pump.
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#8
by
air-cooled or diesel
on 07 May, 2014 05:44
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I had thought he said he cracked inj lines and had fuel while cranking, the only thing with that 1wire is that when you cycle the key on/off you hear the solenoid 'click'.
when you burnt out the glow plugs, did they come out in 1 piece? when they burn out they can go to pieces in the pre-chamber. some could be left in cyl, but I doubt it would lead to this much hard starting, but you don't want your engine to start with bits & pieces of plug in cyl.
the only other thing you need as I stated most of what you need above; is compression, I never tried wd40, but I figure it could work, but the only other thing is the trick posted, hey be real careful doing this, that diesel spray isn't like a gallon of fuel(hard to burn)its really flammable, have someone crank motor, standing well to the side observe inj action/spray. don't get near spray path. but it can tell you if inj pump pressure is defeating inj 'pop' and fuel is actually getting into cyl.
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#9
by
sgnimj96
on 07 May, 2014 06:32
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Fortunately the glow plugs did not break apart (2 of them swelled up on the ends though).
I connect the fuel solenoid with an alligator clip direct to the battery, actual 12v wire is disconnected so it doesn't backfeed.
Thanks for the warning about cranking on open injectors, I'm gonna pull the injectors and just look at them first, see if there even wet. Not sure why the wd-40 trick didn't work, just make it smell like wd-40 everywhere.
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#10
by
air-cooled or diesel
on 07 May, 2014 07:12
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If your going to pull the injs, do you have a diesel compression tester? nows time for that too.
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#11
by
sgnimj96
on 07 May, 2014 07:33
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#12
by
sgnimj96
on 07 May, 2014 09:14
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Something was going on in there, maybe just the wd-40. Glow plugs work, got a visual with the injectors out. I don't have a good camera so I tried it with a magnifying glass
Seems like if fuel was coming out they wouldn't be so evenly coated with gunk
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#13
by
vanbcguy
on 07 May, 2014 11:01
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Sorta hard to tell but those nozzles look like they are pretty toast from here?
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#14
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 07 May, 2014 11:16
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To me that 'gunk' looks like water. 
How long did you leave the head open when changing injectors?
Don't worry about igniting the upturned jets, as the only way to do that is to deliberately do it. They also cut off within half a rev.
If spraying properly, just 4 clouds, and not much dropped onto your engine! Besides, within fractions of a second of seeing sprays, and comparing,the key operator can turn off.
Do a diesel pulse test on #1 line, if sprays are good
