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Author Topic: 1y pump on 1z engine  (Read 18069 times)

April 22, 2014, 05:45:04 pm

SDTS

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1y pump on 1z engine
« on: April 22, 2014, 05:45:04 pm »
Two weeks ago I bought a Golf Mk2 with a 1y 1.9D engine, planning to convert it to mtdi later on. But last week it developed the well known cranck pulley problem, sooner than I hoped. So now I quickly need to replace the engine, but I have only 1 or 2 days to do this, and the only engine I can get is a complete 1z tdi engine from a Mk3, I'm picking it up tomorrow. So with only limited time to do the swap I was thinking of putting in the 1z engine, with turbo, using the 1y 020 transmission, and the 1y pump.

Will the engine run using the 9mm 1,9 IDI NA pump, or is this impossible?

I know that it probably won't have a lot of power, but this would be only a temporary setup. When I have more time in a few weeks to do it right I will build a proper mtdi pump and swap in the 02A transmission, but right now I just need something to get to work the next couple of weeks.

Dennis



Reply #1April 23, 2014, 12:57:18 am

vanbcguy

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Re: Re: 1y pump on 1z engine
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2014, 12:57:18 am »
I don't think the 1Y pump will work well with the 1Z. It will have a smaller pump head that won't make as much pressure nor will it deliver as much fuel. The DI engines need fuel injected over a fairly short duration compared to the IDIs.

It will probably be enough to start the engine, but it will be totally gutless.

Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #2April 23, 2014, 03:49:31 am

SDTS

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Re: 1y pump on 1z engine
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2014, 03:49:31 am »
Okay, so I will probably have to make the electrical tdi pump to work for now. The engine comes with wiring and ecu, but what else would be needed to make it work? I know I need the ignition key for the immobiliser, but do I also need the gauge cluster and electrical speedometer pickup? And if needed, will the electical pickup fit the 020 gearbox?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 03:53:25 am by SDTS »

Reply #3April 23, 2014, 08:28:34 am

RabbitJockey

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Re: 1y pump on 1z engine
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2014, 08:28:34 am »
it will run but be very slow, but perhaps you could handle that until you can find a land rover pump to swap on?
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #4April 23, 2014, 09:37:36 am

burn_your_money

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Re: 1y pump on 1z engine
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2014, 09:37:36 am »
Over here the 1Z does not have an immobilizer. I'm not sure if you can run it without the cluster or not, probably though since a gas cluster will work (which means your diesel one probably will)
Tyler

Reply #5April 24, 2014, 05:21:13 pm

SDTS

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Re: 1y pump on 1z engine
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2014, 05:21:13 pm »
The 1y runs again after replacing the crank pulley and bolt, so now i've got a little more time to prepare for the swap if it keeps running. I picked up the 1z yesterday, and it is missing a few parts that are needed for the etdi, like the ignition key, accelerator pedal and gauge cluster, and I don't like the electronic control anyway, so it will become a mtdi.


So now I'm thinking of making a mtdi pump by combining an aaz pump and the tdi pump, or making it an NA DI engine, using the 1y pump with tdi camplate and 10mm plunger, if that is possible. For me reliability and fuel economy are much more important than power, I was satisfied with the 1Y engine, so if it makes the same power/torque and is a little more efficient I would be happy.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 05:23:36 pm by SDTS »

Reply #6April 24, 2014, 07:18:55 pm

CRSMP5

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Re: 1y pump on 1z engine
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2014, 07:18:55 pm »
Ahhh imo you will never be happy with franken pump vs a rover 300 pump... Itswhy tdi m has bad name... Rover pump is proven to be cake no bs set up...

Next... 1z and pre 99.5 jetta, passat tdi do not need instrument clusters or keys.... Just go pedal... Now if u used a 2000+ tdi.. You do... But yours too old.... Think vnt = issues with alarm...

My rover pump supplier still not made trip back to uk to get more... His next batch will cost more as i am going to show him how to unbuild pumps, bag

label things so i can reseal them prior to new buyer...

Phone fkup there...

I am also going to try and get some rear mounts cnc made for the swap along with throttle linkage so the next set of rover pumps will be resealed, have stuff premade for bolt in ease... But pump price will be around 1k shipped...

Reply #7April 24, 2014, 07:20:44 pm

CRSMP5

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Re: 1y pump on 1z engine
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2014, 07:20:44 pm »
I do not ship to canada though.... Hate customs as they steal loose things too often, i cannot eat lost items due too customs

Reply #8April 25, 2014, 10:35:38 am

vanbcguy

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Re: 1y pump on 1z engine
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2014, 10:35:38 am »
I do not ship to canada though.... Hate customs as they steal loose things too often, i cannot eat lost items due too customs

I have never ever had that experience getting stuff shipped here for what it's worth.  Most packages arrive unopened provided the documentation is done properly.  Ship via USPS, insured - that takes care of absolutely everything for you and provides the lowest cost 'to the door' price for the receiver while protecting you if anything goes missing.
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #9April 25, 2014, 12:23:30 pm

SDTS

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Re: 1y pump on 1z engine
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2014, 12:23:30 pm »
Maybe there is a difference between European and US tdi's, but over here the 1z does have an immobiliser, so without the key the ecu is useless. You can however have the ecu reprogrammed to work without a key, so that isn't really a big problem. With reliability being most important I like m-tdi, of m-sdi in this case better, so that is what it is going to be for now.

So now I'm thinking to combine the 1y and tdi pump to make an m-sdi, so without turbo, and maybe later convert an AAZ pump, or use a Rover pump, and put the turbo back on.

With rover pump you mean from a land rover? Which type would that be, and do the pumps fit without a custom bracket or pump pulley? Maybe there is something for sale around here, or in the junkyards.

Reply #10April 25, 2014, 02:07:34 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: 1y pump on 1z engine
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2014, 02:07:34 pm »
Land Rover Defender 200TDI or 300TDI.  If 300TDI make sure it is from a manual transmission vehicle - many of the automatic 300TDIs have an electronic pump like a TDI.  The pumps are fairly common on eBay and will probably be available in the wreckers around there too.  You're looking for a mid-90s vehicle.

The IP bracket does need to be modified - the Rover pumps have a larger pump snout, same size as an ALH pump.  I just dropped my pump and the factory bracket off at a local machine shop, they opened up the hole in the bracket to match the pump and had it ready for me the next day.

I strongly recommend getting an ALH IP pulley and hub, it makes setting the timing sooooo much easier. If you try to use the 1Z pulley you will need to modify the pump itself as it doesn't have slotted mounting holes for adjustment. The 1Z pump had slotted mounting holes and you would rotate the pump in the bracket to get the timing right like the older diesels. It is a big huge pain in the butt, plus you have to grind away at your expensive injection pump to be able to do that with the Rover pump.

If you do go with the ALH IP pulley you will need to get the 'hump' machined off of the pulley to have it fit behind the 1Z timing cover. Again not a big deal for a machine shop to do.
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #11May 01, 2014, 11:05:30 am

SDTS

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Re: 1y pump on 1z engine
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2014, 11:05:30 am »
I think I will try to make a relatively simple mTDI pump. I have collected some pumps I can use for this purpose:

mk3 10mm TDI pump, for the pump head and plunger:


mk3 GTD 9mm AAZ pump, with real LDA inside, starwheel and everything, never seen that on an AAZ:


mk3 electronic AAZ pump, is complete, just dissasembled


1Y pump 8mm, still on the engine in the mk2


Fully mechanical AAZ pump, from a mk3 vento, in my mk1, could be swapped for another pump if neccesary, car will be sold.


1.6D pump from a mk1, complete but disassembled


So I was thinking of simply using the AAZ pump from the second picture and swapping in the TDI camplate and pump head. I probably will make the TDI NA, so without turbo for reliabilty and economy, but maybe in the future I may decide to put the turbo back on, so a LDA would be nice, but not absolutely neccesary.

Anyone got any tips or thing I am missing? Would this setup run acceptable, or are things more complicated than I think they are?

Reply #12May 01, 2014, 11:43:42 am

theman53

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Re: 1y pump on 1z engine
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2014, 11:43:42 am »
I would think you would want to take the advance section out of the TDI pump as well.

Reply #13May 01, 2014, 12:10:16 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: 1y pump on 1z engine
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2014, 12:10:16 pm »
I would think you would want to take the advance section out of the TDI pump as well.

^^^ What he said...

The TDI engines really need their advance as the combustion chamber only really exists at TDC (unlike an IDI where it is always sealed in the head).  As soon as the piston starts going down its bowl is no longer in the spray of the injectors.  They've got a deeper advance cap which allows the advance piston to slide further, not sure about other internal differences with the pump body itself.
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #14May 02, 2014, 11:29:36 am

SDTS

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Re: 1y pump on 1z engine
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2014, 11:29:36 am »
Ok, thanks, tonight I will take the heads off of the AAZ and TDI pump, and swap them and the advance piston. I will take some pictures of what is inside.

I've never taken a TDI pump apart, so I don't really know wat I'm going to find inside, but I suspect the advance piston doesn't have the pin for the cold start lever (KSB), I think this is not requiresd on a TDI?

I've been reading a bit about mtdi pumps on this forum, and some are talking about a modified governor spring assembly or something? Is this absolutely neccesary, or will the AAZ governor be allright?