AAZ Injector Lines - let em relax! - page 2 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• #15 by Mark(The Miser)UK on 17 Jan, 2014 10:34
• Quote from: wolf_walker on 17 Jan, 2014 09:38

  I would admit to polishing both sides of the flare on each end and lubing them to encourage the nut turning and not twisting the pipe with it.
  
  I've been accused of being fussy about some thing.
  

  ? If you can rationalize it then do it, at least until some nutter comes up with a better reason not to .
  
  Grease on the back of the swaged bit sounds good to me.
  
  Remember to inspect with an eye glass and remove that 'muffin-top' that can develop on the bevel, over a period of time...
• #16 by Gizmoman on 17 Jan, 2014 17:20
• All excellent advice!
  

  • A reference line to check twist
    

  • Lube for the nut

  • A proper flare wrench
    

  
  
  I did send an email to the guy in Ontario, CA but never received a reply. I tend to rely heavily on emails as I'm home after 5:00 and don't do personal stuff at work. Not cause I'm morally proper, I'm just focused on work.
  
  The ones I ordered are spendy, but they're brand new. The PO or possibly someone before him really reefed on them over the years. Not loosening them after the pump move was the final straw. I'm just glad I wasn't on a long road trip when it happened.
  
  Thanks for the feedback.
• #17 by Gizmoman on 21 Jan, 2014 18:45
• My new AAZ IP tubes arrived today. They look exactly like what he had posted:
  
  
  The one that broke though looks a bit different:
  
  
  Yeah, I know the second photo shows a broken one but it has a serious loop in it that the new set doesn't.
  
  As my engine has a 1.6 pump (I also think it had the shorter nozzles), I wonder if my lines were 1.6 lines.
  When I had Giles rebuild the pump, I also sent him my injectors to rebuild. He ended up selling me a new set of nozzles which if I remember correctly were a bit taller than my originals. I don't recall if he said my old nozzles were 1.6 or not but he may have.
  
  I also don't recall if I had to tweak the lines when I installed the new nozzles but I'm pretty sure I did.
  
  My question is, do these (the new ones in the 1st pic) look like the proper lines for a 1.9?
  Again, I have a 1.6 IP and 1.9 nozzles.
  
  I was hoping to simply install one new line and keep the other three as spares. Now it looks like I should change all four but I'm not confident they will fit. The van is at work so I can't check it easily.
  
  If it helps any, the lines that are on the van now have several clamps but one of the clamps, holds all four lines. The new ones came with the clamps as shown in the photo (two lines to a clamp).
  
  Any help appreciated, I'd really like to get the van back home tomorrow.
• #18 by wolf_walker on 21 Jan, 2014 22:21
• Nozzles and bodies are two different things, with a fairly rare exception, the AAZ injectors are dual stage, and in theory should be used with the AAZ pump which has a cam plate and injection profile to match them.  They are taller.  Not that people don't slap all sorts of stuff together and have it work fine, but still.  You can probobly find some measurements of the AAZ and regular 1.6 injector body sizes online and figure that part out.
  
  I'm also pretty sure the AAZ pump has either longer or shorter delivery valves(longer I'm fairly sure), so there are a number of combo's as far as line fitting goes.
  Every time I think I've figured this stuff out I find some bizarre motor/car combo sold in some 3rd world nation that defies convention though, such as I know there have been
  single stage injectors on the 1Y code 1.9 in Europe.  If they were still tall like the AAZ injectors, I can't say.
  
  Like I said, I bent mine to fit years ago.  Carefully.  I'd try em and see.
  
  
• #19 by Gizmoman on 22 Jan, 2014 05:25
• Thanks Wolf. I agree, the combinations for these engines seems limitless.
  I did carefully weld the broken line back together in case I HAVE to use it. I just hate the thought of a piece of carbon (from the process) breaking loose from the tube ID and messing up my new injectors. Tried to clean it out well but theres no duplicating the stress the line is put through on a running engine. The pop tester I built has a "dedicated" line, so it's no help.
  
  The body of the new injectors are about twice as tall as the ones that were in it. That obviously means I had to bend the lines.
  Here's a shot of the new injectors installed:
  
  
  Here is one of the old injectors:
  
  
  Here's the line set that is on it now - the second one is the one that broke:
  
  
  The pump is from a 1.6 and according to Giles, he tweaked it to function as close to a 1.9 as possible but I don't know the specifics. It didn't look any different when I got it back except that it was clean a whistle.
  
  I guess I'll find out if the lines fit today after work. I have a feeling they will.
• #20 by wolf_walker on 22 Jan, 2014 13:29
• Giles could quite possibly have made the 1.6 pump into matching the dual stage injectors, those are the dual stage height injectors you show there.
  Or he could have done some other voodoo.  If they are 1.9 injectors, with 1.9 delivery valves, the only other unknown(to me) is if the overall length of the AAZ pump is
  different than the older 1.6 unit.  I don't think it differs if I had to guess.  Eager to see how it goes.
  
  
• #21 by Gizmoman on 22 Jan, 2014 17:33
• Quote from: wolf_walker on 22 Jan, 2014 13:29

  Giles could quite possibly have made the 1.6 pump into matching the dual stage injectors, those are the dual stage height injectors you show there.
  Or he could have done some other voodoo.  If they are 1.9 injectors, with 1.9 delivery valves, the only other unknown(to me) is if the overall length of the AAZ pump is
  different than the older 1.6 unit.  I don't think it differs if I had to guess.  Eager to see how it goes.

  
  The new lines fit like a glove!
  I believe the old lines were for a 1.6 and were bent by the PO for the taller 1.9 head. Then I bent them some more to fit the new injectors. To makew matters worse I had also forgot to tighten the rear IP pivot bolt which I'm sure contributed to the ugly break in the line.
  
  All is good now, thanks for your support.
  
  
  
  This is why I've been taking it to work everyday - just to shake out these bugs. This issue on a road trip would have been tough to fix with duct tape.
• #22 by wolf_walker on 22 Jan, 2014 22:40
• Very cool!
• #23 by Toby on 23 Jan, 2014 01:26
• The back end of the IP flops around a lot w/o the bracket in place and functioning, so that was undoubtedly a contributing factor.
  
  FWIW, I have never bothered to loosen the nuts on the lines when making timing adjustments and never had a line break in 30 years. I have, however seen a number of broken lines due to bad injectors that had VERY high popping pressures due to stuck pintles. I have seen the same car break at least 2 lines on the same cylinder in 2 weeks time. Replaced that injector and no further problems.
• #24 by Gizmoman on 23 Jan, 2014 05:50
• Quote from: Toby on 23 Jan, 2014 01:26

  The back end of the IP flops around a lot w/o the bracket in place and functioning, so that was undoubtedly a contributing factor.
  
  FWIW, I have never bothered to loosen the nuts on the lines when making timing adjustments and never had a line break in 30 years. I have, however seen a number of broken lines due to bad injectors that had VERY high popping pressures due to stuck pintles. I have seen the same car break at least 2 lines on the same cylinder in 2 weeks time. Replaced that injector and no further problems.
  

  
  Yeah, I'm with you on the back bolt - definitely the #1 reason for the break. I had misplaced the tapered nut during the rebuild and made another on the lathe out of a standard nut and bolt. Because I hadn't tightened it, it was gone. I used another nut and bolt to get it home, but it's not moving now till the new set arrives from Jim Ellis. 18 bucks to the door but worth every penny after this.
  
  BTW, the bolt was still in there (held in by a coolant hose) and was severely hammered from the IP brackets mashing it a billion times.
• #25 by Blue Haze on 23 Jan, 2014 09:41
• I'm surprised he did not get back to you.  He is closed on Mondays.  I have been to his shop he has all kinds of stuff I would bet he has a 5 spd.
• #26 by Gizmoman on 23 Jan, 2014 17:20
• Quote from: Blue Haze on 23 Jan, 2014 09:41

  I'm surprised he did not get back to you.  He is closed on Mondays.  I have been to his shop he has all kinds of stuff I would bet he has a 5 spd.
  

  He did get back to me yesterday and his price was 150. Too late this time.
  
  I'll have to stop by there some day if I'm in the area.