GTI > GTD (US) fuel starvation... need refresher - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• GTI > GTD (US) fuel starvation... need refresher by janb on 29 Dec, 2013 21:15
• Been away from my VW IDI projects for about 10 yrs and trying to remember... 
  
  Seem to have fuel starvation on a GTI conversion (86). Will fire momentarily, but not sustain running.  (Towing or cranking)  Initial sputter, but never again till stop / bleed...
  1) Tried 3 IP's  (of unknown quality)
  2) Have fuel to injectors (not a lot of fuel...but it squirts (a little) )
  3) Using std GTI (Gas) tank and pick-up. (Bypassed High Pressure (GAS) pump under rear seat)
  
  a) Should I replace the (GAS) 'in-tank' pickup with a diesel one?  I have a Few donors laying around... (Thought this one would 'pump low pressure', but getting nothing)
  b) Should I add an inline pump? (5-7psi rattle box like in the olden days Type1 Air Cooled)
  
  IDI pump timing... (180Deg)
  Does the Drive sprocket keyway face in (toward engine) or out? (radiator) .  Seems I have sample pumps that do both
  Since I am tired of swapping pumps... I am making an IP Pump Stand tonight using my Metal Lathe and clear tubes to use for calibration.  Works pretty good for sample 'does-it-work' test. Room for improvement.
  
  An advice appreciated... I have a herd of these things to get fixed and sold.  (And there will be a BIG parts sale when I finally get my 'driver's complete).
  
  An Affordable pump shop would be appreciated.  I found the Bosch Shops much cheaper TX, They will do my VE Cummins, but not keen on working on VW ('foreign' stuff...)
  
  
• #1 by vanbcguy on 30 Dec, 2013 01:38
• First off, try running it from a jug or can so you can rule out the fuel tank and the fuel lines on the car. Also I don't see any mention of changing your filter above, that can definitely be an issue.
  
  I'd find it pretty unlikely that 3 separate pumps all have the same issues so I'm betting you have a restriction in your supply line somewhere. An inline vacuum gauge can help diagnose that.
  
  The key way on the pump should point at the injector it is about to supply fuel to. However it is possible to assemble the pump 180 out. Personally I'd go back to your original pump as I doubt it has an issue and you know it was working up until whatever happened.
• #2 by Mark(The Miser)UK on 30 Dec, 2013 02:29
• Undo #1 fuel line @ the injector.
  Rotate engine with ignition/solenoid on, with a socket on the crank bolt turning clockwise.
  Watch position of pump sprocket notch AND flywheel TDC mark when the pulse of diesel dribbles out...
  Also lobes of #1 cam should be pointing away from engine.
• #3 by 8v-of-fury! on 30 Dec, 2013 18:29
• The pumps key-way should point to the 11 o'clock position as I am unaware of pumps having it in other spots..
  
  Are they all Rabbit/Jetta Pumps?
• #4 by 745 turbogreasel on 30 Dec, 2013 18:40
• Some of us have opposite rotation pumps driven off the back of the cam which might make clockedness unclear.
  I do think it is safe to say the keyway should  face in the general  up direction.... which makes lots of sense form an assembly standpoint.
• #5 by 8v-of-fury! on 30 Dec, 2013 18:44
• This is a GTD pump in a GTI Golf isn't it??
  
  11 o'clock position in reference to looking at the pump pulley on normal front mounted pumps.
• #6 by 8v-of-fury! on 30 Dec, 2013 18:56
• This is pretty much 11:30 in reference to the pump top being level.
  
  
• #7 by janb on 30 Dec, 2013 23:06
• Thanks, I really appreciate the comments.  I will have to try the 'suspended fuel can'  / IV bag.
  
  All the pumps are Rabbit / Jetta (IDI USA).  Pumps have been sitting on engines in shop for a few yrs, but worked when engine was pulled.
  
  The Keyway points toward the locking pin position on the sprocket, so not sure how it could be at 11:30?  Some sprockets are symmetrical (some Locking pin size hole 180 apart), some sprockets have only one locking pin size hole. (for the A2 IP mount that has a nut to tighten opposite locking pin.)
  
  Keep the ideas coming, and I will fill you in with some Smoke stories, I hope soon...
• #8 by Mark(The Miser)UK on 31 Dec, 2013 08:46
• All sounds frightening to me.
  
  Great photo of the back plate [I may nick it    ]
  
  Now that the belt is off you have to put it all back on again, using whatever timing technique you did before.
  Then if you do the check I explained earlier, you will  know
  (i) Does the fuel reach the injectors, and,
  (ii) Is the timing basically correct, and probably only needs fine tuning, or is it all way off...
• #9 by burn_your_money on 31 Dec, 2013 17:49
• Quote from: janb on 30 Dec, 2013 23:06

  The Keyway points toward the locking pin position on the sprocket, so not sure how it could be at 11:30?  Some sprockets are symmetrical (some Locking pin size hole 180 apart), some sprockets have only one locking pin size hole. (for the A2 IP mount that has a nut to tighten opposite locking pin.)
  

  
  Use a pulley with only 1 locking hole, it will save you some headaches. The keyway needs to be in the 10-11:30 area when you are putting the locking pin in. You can see the keyway with the pulley nut removed. To me it sounds like the IV will fix your problems, or at least point you in the right direction.
• #10 by janb on 04 Jan, 2014 22:56
• Thanks all 
  
  1) Pump keyway to 9 o-clock (180 Deg opposite locking pin)
  2) Replace in-tank fuel pump (GTI gas pump / )
  
  And adequate smoke and clatter appeared to indicate it was running 
  
  On to next several projects... swaps and getting stuff running this winter.
  1) 81 Caddy LX  will get a rebuilt IDI transplant and SOLD (I hope SOON!)
  2) 85 Jetta 'commuter special'  will get a running IDI donor and SOLD
  3) (3) 1.6 TD's to build up
  4) 86 GL will get the 1.9 removed and a Hyd IDI Transplant and SOLD
  5) 81 'StealthRabbit' will get a 1.6TD  IDI
  6) 84 Rabbit will become a GTD  IDI
  
  TDI's ... 3 projects there too...  Looking for an 'cherry' Blue A3 GTI for next transplant.
  
  Thanks again... I shall return.!