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Bumping the IP timing one tooth
by
Gizmoman
on 18 Nov, 2013 20:25
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If anyone can suggest the easiest way to bump the IP sprocket one tooth clockwise (without loosing cam/crank timing), I'd like to do just that.
Thanks!
Jim
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#1
by
libbydiesel
on 18 Nov, 2013 20:40
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Sure. I've done it lots of times without issue and have got the 'easy way' down pat. That said, if you mess up your engine trying to follow my instructions, YOU are the one who messed up your engine. I had nothing to do with it...
Rotate crank to TDC and make sure pump is set for #1 (sprocket hole lines up with the hole in the bracket). Make a very visible paint mark on one of the cam sprocket teeth and mark the timing belt backing plate right behind it. Loosen the tensioner and rotate it to the minimum tension position (you can tighten the nut slightly to hold it there). Rotate the crank CCW whil pushing down on the belt between the pump and the cam. When it is taut between the cam, tensioner and crank then you can stop rotating backwards. You just moved all of the belt slack to the pump sprocket area and hopefully rotated backwards enough to be between camplate ramps with the pump. Now slide the belt almost off the pump sprocket so that it is just ever so slightly still on. Put a wrench on the pump sprocket nut and rotate the sprocket the direction you want to go while gently moving the belt slightly to let it go just one tooth. Slip the belt back on. Rotate the crank back to TDC while again pushing down between the cam, but more gently this time. You basically push down so that the belt doesn't jump at the pump again before the slack is all at the tensioner. Tighten the tensioner back to where it was, make sure the reference marks on the cam sprocket and shield line up when the crank is at TDC, rotate the crank two full revolutions by hand. Enjoy the new range of motion for timing the pump.
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#2
by
burn_your_money
on 18 Nov, 2013 20:41
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Put a piece of cardboard between the belt and gear and it will probably jump a tooth when you roll the engine over by hand. Make sure you have the tools to fix it if things go wrong before attempting.
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#3
by
Gizmoman
on 18 Nov, 2013 20:52
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Sure. I've done it lots of times without issue and have got the 'easy way' down pat. That said, if you mess up your engine trying to follow my instructions, YOU are the one who messed up your engine. I had nothing to do with it...
Rotate crank to TDC and make sure pump is set for #1 (sprocket hole lines up with the hole in the bracket). Make a very visible paint mark on one of the cam sprocket teeth and mark the timing belt backing plate right behind it. Loosen the tensioner and rotate it to the minimum tension position (you can tighten the nut slightly to hold it there). Rotate the crank CCW whil pushing down on the belt between the pump and the cam. When it is taut between the cam, tensioner and crank then you can stop rotating backwards. You just moved all of the belt slack to the pump sprocket area and hopefully rotated backwards enough to be between camplate ramps with the pump. Now slide the belt almost off the pump sprocket so that it is just ever so slightly still on. Put a wrench on the pump sprocket nut and rotate the sprocket the direction you want to go while gently moving the belt slightly to let it go just one tooth. Slip the belt back on. Rotate the crank back to TDC while again pushing down between the cam, but more gently this time. You basically push down so that the belt doesn't jump at the pump again before the slack is all at the tensioner. Tighten the tensioner back to where it was, make sure the reference marks on the cam sprocket and shield line up when the crank is at TDC, rotate the crank two full revolutions by hand. Enjoy the new range of motion for timing the pump.
Thanks for the detailed instructions libby! - I have read the disclaimer and my lawyer says it's valid.
Put a piece of cardboard between the belt and gear and it will probably jump a tooth when you roll the engine over by hand. Make sure you have the tools to fix it if things go wrong before attempting.
Should I decide to attempt the "cardboard" procedure - is that with the tensioner loose or tight?
Either way, the part about turning it over by hand twice is good advice
Thanks
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#4
by
burn_your_money
on 18 Nov, 2013 21:21
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Tensioner tight. The belt is loose enough that you shouldn't have any issues with stretching the belt.
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#5
by
bbob203
on 18 Nov, 2013 22:28
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I've done it similar to andrews way before worked great. Though I didn't slide the belt off like he described just slacked the belt.. pulled up on it so less teeth where contacting the pulley and marked it, put a wrench on the center bolt and gave it a turn 1 tooth. retensioned the belt turned it over twice and checked the belt ip bolt with a torque wrench. I do see why he prescribed to move the belt almost completely off the pulley and had i thought of it i would've done it as such.
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#6
by
TylerDurden
on 18 Nov, 2013 22:31
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I just mark the belt and the sprocket with a china-marker, loosen the tensioner and slip the sprocket.
The IP is usually mid-ramp on its internal camplate and has a tendency to snap back, so a holding wrench on the IP pulley is also good.
(For extra security, I sometimes clip or clamp the belt to the cam and the IM pulleys. )
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#7
by
Gizmoman
on 19 Nov, 2013 08:24
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OK, All good suggestions for sure. I spoze It's time to knuckle in and mark TDC on the flywheel
. In my haste to stuff the engine in, I didn't mark the new over-size flywheel/pressure plate - now I'm really regretting it.
In another post CRMP5 suggested putting fluid in a tiny clear hose and stuffing it in through the #4 GP or Injector port. I finally get what get was suggesting. The end of the hose should be squished shut (I could super-glue it flat) As I rotate the crank, the fluid will rise slightly. When it stops rising, that's TDC - mark the flywheel.
I'd rather pull a GP than an injector, but getting the hose through the pre-cup port could prove a challenge. Assuming I timed it correctly the first time, wouldn't perfectly lining up the cam slot provide TDC as well?
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#8
by
CRSMP5
on 19 Nov, 2013 09:38
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no not squished shut.. wrong...
ok.. ask libby if i screw you up...
what you do i sget 4-5ft of clear tubing... that fits into the glow plug casting hole of the head..
before inserting into head.. and make it into a big happy face.. with water in the tube at the bottom most part..
stick tube in head not allowing bottom smilly part filled with liquid to even be close to pouring fluid in the hole.. it will hydro lock it.. so keep the liquid a few feet from the head...
now turning the engine shoul dsuck on the fluid or push it.. like a hiperdermic needle sucking in or pushing out.. the liquid bubble will move towards the head when moving down.. pushes away from head when moving towards tdc.. when it no move it is tdc
gotta have the far end open to allow the fluid to move back/fourth.. the liquid in the tube is the "seal" its like using a level bubble pretty much.. but the engine pushes/pulls..
why #4 glowplug.. tdc same as #1 for piston.. easy to access.. the old snap on timming light conversion uses #4 glowplug due to this even.. has weird part that replaced the glowplug.. odd tool.. only tried it 1 time..
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#9
by
TylerDurden
on 19 Nov, 2013 09:57
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#10
by
theman53
on 19 Nov, 2013 09:58
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yep
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#11
by
bbob203
on 19 Nov, 2013 10:10
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#12
by
745 turbogreasel
on 19 Nov, 2013 19:01
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the piston moves up and down a lot more per degree at half stroke than top or bottom. You can get better accuracy marking 2 equal opposite points, then rotating to halfway between them.
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#13
by
theman53
on 19 Nov, 2013 19:05
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If it is timed already, take the valve cover off, slide in your timing tool and the feeler gauge shims. then make your TDC mark. If you timed it already you are good, if you didn't you need slapped for running it out of time.
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#14
by
libbydiesel
on 19 Nov, 2013 19:11
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I used the clear tube stuck in a glow plug hole a couple weekends ago on a friend's engine. It worked PERFECTLY for an EXACT TDC mark. I could easily tell the exact point where the liquid stopped moving the one way and started moving the other way.
