Rebuilding the 1.6 na for my Caddy

[VeroDubs]

Hey guys, fount this forum through VWVortex, and thought I would do my build thread here too as there is a wealth of knowledge here!  I look forward to sharing and learning.  -ERIK

8/19/13

So I am new to diesels, as in completely new.  I have rebuilt 8v's and built aircooled's from the crank out.  But don't have a clue what I am doing with this thing. :laugh:

I picked up this caddy a while ago and it had this motor sitting on the floor in the cab.  So I yanked it out of there and stuck it in my garage on an engine stand, and thats where it sat!   Till Saturday.

Heres the caddy in question-



I finally am inspired to get my butt to work on the caddy.  Been dailying my 87 GLI, but need to do some work on it too.  So I need another vehicle running in order to take my GLI off the road.

I found this thread on a 1.6 rebuild on a budget, and I am sort of in the same boat.  But I also like to do things right and once!  So I will pony up a little more for parts if needed.  

Link is now dead...

I started trying to clean the motor on Saturday and cranking it over with a wrench, when I noticed I could feel some binding.  Not in the crank, but in the head.  So instead of trying to clean it up, I decided to tear it down and start at the block.  Check for cracks, clean and paint, then reassemble.  I am a neat freak when it comes to engine bays, and like things to be clean.









While looking inside, I noticed that there are some metal shavings on the oil pump gear I believe.  What does this look like to you guys?



By the way, I am a photographer and love taking photos.... so my threads do not lack in that department.


My plans are to do a full rebuild, starting with a fresh, clean block.  I have been reading on the electrolysis cleaning method for doing engine blocks and think I am going to go that route. Then I need to pick up the new rebuild stuff, which in the thread I linked, he list's as-

Info on electrolysis cleaning- http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4816475-Electrolysis-Cleaning-Tank&highlight=electrolysis

Autohauz AZ
6050780581 Fuel Hose/Line; Braided Hose 3.2mm ID x 1.9mm Wall; Bulk $3.32
068130309 Fuel Hose/Line; Fuel Pipe from Filter to Pump $14.17
0009871145 Vacuum Hose/Line; Diesel Injector Overflow Line End Plug; Hose Plug $0.84
026103547 Valve Cover Oil Deflector $5.69
068109119E Timing Belt $14.43
068109243F Timing Belt Tensioner Pulley/Roller; Metal Roller $20.87
068103384A qty 10 Cylinder Head Bolt; 12x115mm total $17.40
068198012D Cylinder Head Gasket Set; Without Head Gasket $31.02
068103383AF Cylinder Head Gasket; 1.5mm 2 Groove $22.26
037198011C Block/Lower Engine Gasket Set $17.06
034105701 Connecting Rod Bearing Set; Standard with Journal Oil Holes $14.98
056198451A Main Bearing Set; Standard $37.99
068198151A Piston Ring Set; Standard 76.50mm $21.57
--Total to rebuild engine and head-- $221.60

From Bosch dealer:
0434250103 qty 4 injector nozzle total $80.40
dgk126 injection pump gasket kit $12.70
1460283312 injection pump radial seal $7.75
--Total to rebuild injection pump and injectors --$100.85

Is there any changes to this list I should make?

How about going to ARP head studs?  I know I have the block with 11mm studs and they are prone to case cracking... but I have checked all the stud holes and do not see any cracks in the block.

So there it is, my opening post.  I am open to any suggestions or things I need to look out for.

-ERIK

[VeroDubs]

8/25/13

Alright... I got the block completely stripped down.  



Question #1- Should I remove the freeze plugs from the block and replace them?  Or is that unnecessary?

I moved the block over to the tub where we are going to give the electrolysis cleaning a whirl.  Since it wont cost me a thing to try!  If it fails, then I will look for another method of cleaning.  Not sure if it is going to remove the paint or not!



Here is everything off the motor.  I still need to track down the manifolds, a new water pump, alternator, and a few other odds and ends.

Question #2- One of the teeth on the cam gear is chipped, should I replace the gear?



Question #3- Should I replace the oil pump?  I have read arguments for both.  

Laid everything out the way it came apart.  Question #4- Is this necessary?  Since I am replacing all the bearing and rings and going to hone the cylinders, do I need to keep everything the way it came out of the motor?



Also scored a nice blasting cabinet off craigslist for $25... should help in cleaning up some of the parts!



And the final Question #5- From my first post, should I go ARP hardware? I don't have intentions of boosting as of now.  But I also am not greatly excited by the lack of power in the 1.6!

Question #6- also from previous post but with more involved now.  The oil pump gear "rod?", does it have bearing pressed into the whole in which it spins?  Is that where the metal shavings came from?  

So that's where I stand for today.  Gonna start putting the electrolysis tank together tomorrow.  I have to stop and get my welder from a friend.  Can't wait to see how it works on this block.  The gunk on it is THICK!

And here's a pic that I took to make my new desktop... I just liked it! :beer:

[burn_your_money]

The flakes are likely from the intermediate shaft bearings.

#1) If they are rusty at all I would replace them.

#2) Depends where the chip is. If you can find one easily/cheap I would.

#3) How to inspect the oil pump is in the Bentley. If it passes I would use it. I prefer real OEM compared to anything you can buy new today.

#4) not sure

#5) For a NA or ever stock boost level build I would go stock except on headstuds (since it's 11mm). I'd actually just find a 12mm block.

Make sure you measure everything and buy the proper bearings and also headgasket. Very, very important.

[TylerDurden]

We likes good pix. 

The shaft that drives the oil pump and vac pump is the Intermediate (or IM) shaft. It has two bearings that are driven-in with a hole aligned to the hole to the oil gallery. That bearing by the gear is shot (that's the shavings), and the front one is easy enough to replace regardless. Cheap insurance.


I would go studs, replace the oil pump, reseal the Injection Pump (IP), replace the freeze-plugs.

It can't hurt to keep the parts in order, even if you're doing the bores and bearings.

[745 turbogreasel]

if you have an 11mm block, the 12mm bolts listed won't work.  I have had  a lot of the really cheap ones (12mm) break before reaching spec torque, and would order 3-4 extra if using them.  No biggie if they do break, just  stick in another one.

! if the head gasket was what went bad,replace the plugs.  Will pulling them out help the electro cleaining process in the passages?

2 I've filed  nicks and dings of many a timing belt  cog.

4 I do, to make forensics easier if nothing else. Cam caps also must stay in order.

5 my  philosophy is invest minimum in 11mm  hardware

to get  head gasket thickness, did you measure actual piston protrusion? variance here will  help you catch a bent rod from past hydrolock.
I never assume the PO  used the correct head gasket, I've even seen VW get it wrong.

Check the exhaust valve guides especially, also with the shims out, look for cracks in the cam followers, especially if there are valve footprints on any piston tops.

Looks like you have a nice  shell to start with there.

[theman53]

With the big D on the back and the lack of 1.6 and the weird shaped oil pan I would make sure that it isn't a 1.5.

The oil pan looks weird shaped to me in the one pic. If it was a 1.5L I wouldn't rebuild it, I would source another engine in the 12mm head bolt variety. You can put your 1.5 rotating assembly in that 1.6 if you want to, but IMHO it will be more reliable as a 12mm block instead of the 11mm.

I skimmed the thread...saw BYM post on #4 as I don't know. I would keep it all together as it should wear better if you don't mix and match the rods as they have been in there before. I know you are replacing the bearings and they should all be sized but I would do it just in case. Also, the rods should be numbered on the bottom of the caps. Make sure not to interchange those.

[VeroDubs]

if you have an 11mm block, the 12mm bolts listed won't work.  I have had  a lot of the really cheap ones (12mm) break before reaching spec torque, and would order 3-4 extra if using them.  No biggie if they do break, just  stick in another one.

! if the head gasket was what went bad,replace the plugs.  Will pulling them out help the electro cleaining process in the passages?
This motor was drained of all fluids when I got it.  But I didn't see any major issues, and the motor turned freely when I checked it.
2 I've filed  nicks and dings of many a timing belt  cog.
Good to know... I will try to source another, but keep this in mind!
4 I do, to make forensics easier if nothing else. Cam caps also must stay in order.
Perfect, I will mark everything before I get it out of order.  I always have when rebuilding aircooled stuff, but wasn't sure about watercooled motors!
5 my  philosophy is invest minimum in 11mm  hardware
As burn_your_money said, invest in a 12mm block.  Are they that easy to find?  And are the 11mm blocks really that prone to cracking.  I would like to know before I take the time to clean up and refurb this block!
to get  head gasket thickness, did you measure actual piston protrusion? variance here will  help you catch a bent rod from past hydrolock.
I did not measure the piston clearance previous to disassembling the block.  In the past, I have always done this upon reassembly of the motor in order to set the deck height/c.r. (again aircooled). Too late now, but should I have done it differently?
I never assume the PO  used the correct head gasket, I've even seen VW get it wrong.

Check the exhaust valve guides especially, also with the shims out, look for cracks in the cam followers, especially if there are valve footprints on any piston tops.
I am not ready for the head yet, that will come later... it intimidates me!    But if it means anything, all the pistons look perfect!
Looks like you have a nice  shell to start with there.
I got lucky with the caddy!  A guy had the whole body restored.  No rust at all.  It has some dents and dings from being moved around for 5 years, but overall in great shape! I picked it up, with the motor, and a ton of parts for $800!

We likes good pix. 
Good, because I really do take a lot!!! 
The shaft that drives the oil pump and vac pump is the Intermediate (or IM) shaft. It has two bearings that are driven-in with a hole aligned to the hole to the oil gallery. That bearing by the gear is shot (that's the shavings), and the front one is easy enough to replace regardless. Cheap insurance.
So I will have to remove the freeze plug towards the gear side of the shaft in order to install the new bearings for it?

I would go studs, replace the oil pump, reseal the Injection Pump (IP), replace the freeze-plugs.
Perfect, thank you!
It can't hurt to keep the parts in order, even if you're doing the bores and bearings.
Noted and planned on doing now!

The flakes are likely from the intermediate shaft bearings.
Going to be replacing those, see post above about removing freeze plug towards gear side of shaft.
#1) If they are rusty at all I would replace them.
All the freeze plugs from the inside look brand new.  The outside is coated in oil so I have no clue of the shape.  I think I am going to go ahead and knock them out and replace them!
#2) Depends where the chip is. If you can find one easily/cheap I would.
If is right on the edge of one of the teeth.  I am going to try and source a replacement!
#3) How to inspect the oil pump is in the Bentley. If it passes I would use it. I prefer real OEM compared to anything you can buy new today.
Still need to pick up a bentley for a diesel.  Got a gasser one, but isn't much use!  I like reusing parts if possible, saves me money!
#4) not sure
No worries... others have given input.  I love forums!
#5) For a NA or ever stock boost level build I would go stock except on headstuds (since it's 11mm). I'd actually just find a 12mm block.
Ok, as asked above.  Is this an easy task to accomplish, finding a new block?  I was under the assumption that these motors were not the easiest things to source out!
Make sure you measure everything and buy the proper bearings and also headgasket. Very, very important.
I am sure I will be having a lot of questions before I spend money on new parts!

Thanks for the insight and help so far!!

[VeroDubs]

With the big D on the back and the lack of 1.6 and the weird shaped oil pan I would make sure that it isn't a 1.5.
Block is I.D.'d as a 1.5, DANG IT ALL!  Is it really not worth rebuilding?  Engine code is CK
The oil pan looks weird shaped to me in the one pic. If it was a 1.5L I wouldn't rebuild it, I would source another engine in the 12mm head bolt variety. You can put your 1.5 rotating assembly in that 1.6 if you want to, but IMHO it will be more reliable as a 12mm block instead of the 11mm.

I skimmed the thread...saw BYM post on #4 as I don't know. I would keep it all together as it should wear better if you don't mix and match the rods as they have been in there before. I know you are replacing the bearings and they should all be sized but I would do it just in case. Also, the rods should be numbered on the bottom of the caps. Make sure not to interchange those.
Noted

[theman53]

Get a 1.6 block and throw your stuff in? Get another oil pan as that looks like the one in the 4 quart system.

[VeroDubs]

Get a 1.6 block and throw your stuff in? Get another oil pan as that looks like the one in the 4 quart system.

Well that puts a dampener on things.  Guess I better start looking.  VW's in my area aren't the most abundant!

[745 turbogreasel]

A lot of them didn't crack in the first 10 years
Aside from the crack thing, 1.5s are the oldest, and I think more subject to bore wear.   
If it was running when they took it apart, it probably still will.
It's fairly cheap to try, and might run for years while you source a nice 1.6 or 1.9.
It might even be worth $200 to build a practice diesel?

IIRC 11mm head bolts that are not a 12pt female star are reusable, and  do not use the torque to yield procedure the later ones  do.

[theman53]

The stock bolts are not 12pt but you can use the gasser bolts and they are 12pt and the TTY.

[VeroDubs]

PM about parts and blocks...

Not sure if my PM's are working.  I am not showing anything in my outbox, so let me know if you didn't get the PM I sent.

A lot of them didn't crack in the first 10 years
Aside from the crack thing, 1.5s are the oldest, and I think more subject to bore wear.   
If it was running when they took it apart, it probably still will.
It's fairly cheap to try, and might run for years while you source a nice 1.6 or 1.9.
It might even be worth $200 to build a practice diesel?

IIRC 11mm head bolts that are not a 12pt female star are reusable, and  do not use the torque to yield procedure the later ones  do.

Im thinking if I can find a block cheap and easy, I will swap.  Otherwise I am still going to clean and inspect the one I have and see if I can make it all work again! 

The head studs that came out of the head are 6 pt. allens... so they would be reusable?  Being that the 1.5 is prone to cracking, should I look into studding it?

The stock bolts are not 12pt but you can use the gasser bolts and they are 12pt and the TTY.

TTY?  Any 8v gasser bolts?

[RabbitJockey]

I am currently doing a headgasket job on my 11mm 1.6 rabbit and after reading a few threads about 11mm blocks i bought the studs 207-4701.  Same as 4g63. Lightningmotorsports.com had them the cheapest

[theman53]

I believe so, the 16v are way too long.