1988 1.6TD KKK24 - Low On Overall Power - page 2 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
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#15 by 410 on 12 Jul, 2013 11:46
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Definitely not stuck open, boost builds up and if you stay out of it for fueling but allow the engine to still make RPM's it continues to build but if you give it pedal you get loss of power and black out the back ie. waste gate or BOV has popped.
To me this sounds like your BOV is releasing your hard earned boost. Deal with that and the power will improve. -
#16 by 8v-of-fury on 12 Jul, 2013 21:13
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I know I need gauges, but the money and "need" is elsewhere.. This thing is pretty much our bone stock to-and-from work commuter and the woman's car, but we mostly drive mine to tool around as it is way more fun haha.
I would start by cranking up that bov. Crank that flat had screw as tight as you can get it. You can't stop it from blowing off but you should see an improvement.
I will disable it all together, and disable the waste-gate for a small test drive. See what happens, might do it tonight if I have the time.
Blocksmith, I am certain it is not the waste gate being stuck open because the engine builds boost normally and will until 4500 rpm if you are just on the pedal enough to keep accelerating. Anymore pedal application and you get an immediate huge loss of power (like almost deceleration) and a huge plume of black out the back. So this is either the BOV or the waste gate blowing wide open and wasting all of either the exhaust or intake manifold pressure, thus no powerz. I am advanced on the timing, but not overly. Always cranked in the winter and only needed the advance cable on the super cold starts, mainly for the idle bump. I like a nice clean low idle and some rattles lol.
The fuel is an interesting point to point out, I run a very healthy shot of 2-stroke in all 3 diesels in the driveway at every fill-up. This one and my 84 M-TDI actually get the highlight of sucking back LSD as opposed to the ULSD everyone else is accustomed to. I get my fuel every week from work as part of my "salary", and I am aware of the tanks cleaning history and filter changes on the pumps. We go through quite a bit of diesel, so it is always fresh fuel.
I dunno man, how does that K03 1.6 spin up? I am assuming QUICK like my two 1.9L K03's. They rev super fast, faster than gasser fast. I actually took off hard the other day being a bit of a show-off for a friend who thinks my car is "funny"... A fair 1500-1700 RPM clutch feather and throttle massaging got the tires loose without issue, mashed the pedal and I hit red-line faster then I could pull off the go-go pedal! No lies, I drained the injection pump of its fuel and immediately it began chugging and running rough (I thought I popped the turbo to pieces!). Let it idle well I popped the hood, and it began to smooth out as I saw fuel entering the pump ha! Subjective problem? Pretty much yes, the car runs fine just needs more power! haha I hate driving it after getting out of either of the 1.9L cars.. lol.
I'll have to see if the stock mk3 TDI intercooler will fit in the mk2, and then add some piping. BAM instant 20hp.
Lucas, I have the max fuel screw in as far as the pump can physically have it man. Which means internally the fuel control collar is in its most aggressive fueling position and will allow the pump to inject its maximum quantity per injection stroke of the plunger. This pump could probably benefit from an AAZ cam-plate.. I have had good luck with them in 1.6 pumps in the past for people. I can hear the boost when past 2000 at WOT, it doesn't come on hard or seem to have much effect. If the engine is much below 3000 when a hill is approached it will be sucked right down and power will drop off drastically. Even the 1st to 2nd shift needs to be drawn out for 2nd to have any acceleration whatsoever. Me hates. lol.
Why is it hillbilly tuning? I do not get why everyone calls it this. Seriously lol. You insert your gauge, set it to whatever number you feel like will be best and then test run it. Don't like it you insert the gauge again and advance or retard based on how you feel it is running. I do this same thing minus inserting the gauge each time. What is the difference? Either way we both turned the pump advanced or retarded to run the way we want it to by ear and feel. With regards to a timing light we all time our engines the same way, to where it runs best. I just don't need locks or a gauge to do so lol.Your way IMHO is not intelligent in the slightest for running the car.
HAHA, awe come on why you gotta be like that lol. Intelligent? You have never turned a distributor without a timing light attached to set it how you liked it? Repeatable? Sure why isn't it? I know how I like them to sound when running, so that is where I set them to lol. Really, I'd say this is as close to an accurate way as the timing light with factoring in all wear items and all.
FWIW, Giles gives a concrete number to set his pumps to because he set them up that way on his really expensive calibration bench. If he wants the pump to begin injection at .95mm then that is where he will tell you to set it I feel.
TREVi also do not like just tuning by ear, i like to set it with the gauge, then tune by ear, and drive see whats best.
What is the difference though? lol. You end up doing what I do in the end anyway. Sooo..
PICS FOR CLICKS!
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#17 by RabbitJockey on 12 Jul, 2013 21:39
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Shut up and disable your bov you hill billy
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#18 by 410 on 13 Jul, 2013 05:57
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Shut up and disable your bov you hill billy
Second that. Less talk and more action. The time you spent writing that post you could have fixed it by now.
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#19 by 8v-of-fury on 13 Jul, 2013 07:07
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GAH, It still does not explain the low down power which is my original quarrel. lol
Off the line, you could launch hard and the engine will bog right down to whatever RPM it wants to be at and slowly gain speed.
I am pretty sure I remember the other 1.6TD being able to break them loose without issue, -
#20 by RabbitJockey on 13 Jul, 2013 07:18
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GAH, It still does not explain the low down power which is my original quarrel. lol
Off the line, you could launch hard and the engine will bog right down to whatever RPM it wants to be at and slowly gain speed.
I am pretty sure I remember the other 1.6TD being able to break them loose without issue,
Yeah it does your bov is opening and your going from mad boosted power to *** power that is probably even less than na power -
#21 by 8v-of-fury on 13 Jul, 2013 07:29
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No. LOL Seriously, I mean like before boost has really picked up (2000+)
For reference the other 1.6TD only had a little more fuel screw than stock, stock waste-gate and functioning stock BOV as well. Its weird. -
#22 by theman53 on 13 Jul, 2013 07:49
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I still think it is timing related to some point. Without a number I will not try to help more. I have another idea about the pump. Good Luck.
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#23 by 8v-of-fury on 13 Jul, 2013 08:50
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But you think it being too retarded would be the lack of power?
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#24 by Gizmoman on 13 Jul, 2013 08:57
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Quote
I drained the injection pump of its fuel and immediately it began chugging and running rough (I thought I popped the turbo to pieces!). Let it idle well I popped the hood, and it began to smooth out as I saw fuel entering the pump h
I know very little about these pumps and I'm aware that you are very familiar with them. That said, from the statement you made (above), it sounds like your pump isn't drawing fuel properly.
I would think you could never "drain the IP of its fuel" by stomping on the go pedal.
As for the timing method - "hillbilly" or "intelligent", a number is something we can all relate to specifically, sound is subjective and could vary widely from one person's ear to another. However, where the timing is when you close the hood is still subjective. IMHO there's nothing wrong with how you do it. What would be difficult is for me to set my IP timing the same based on what you hear
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#25 by 8v-of-fury on 13 Jul, 2013 11:07
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It sounds like your pump isn't drawing fuel properly.
I would think you could never "drain the IP of its fuel" by stomping on the go pedal.
As for the timing method - "hillbilly" or "intelligent", a number is something we can all relate to specifically, sound is subjective and could vary widely from one person's ear to another. However, where the timing is when you close the hood is still subjective. IMHO there's nothing wrong with how you do it. What would be difficult is for me to set my IP timing the same based on what you hear
This was on my M-TDI with the 11mm Rover Pump and .216 nozzles. It is drawing fuel as it should, and is being force fed by a pusher pump pre-filter. It is making adequate case pressure so the vane pump is healthy and doing its job.
I would never expect you to time your engine via my ear. But with your own ear you could very well do so. I've done a couple in my time so I know what overly retarded and overly advanced "sounds" like to my ear. I once used a gauge, and I once fooled with many timing settings.. I've got a good ear. lol
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#26 by Rising on 14 Jul, 2013 06:37
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GAH, It still does not explain the low down power which is my original quarrel. lol
Off the line, you could launch hard and the engine will bog right down to whatever RPM it wants to be at and slowly gain speed.
I am pretty sure I remember the other 1.6TD being able to break them loose without issue,
Yeah it does your bov is opening and your going from mad boosted power to *** power that is probably even less than na power
To verify my n/a will break my tires loose just fine. Especially before I moved to 195s.
It also doesnt have trouble getting up hills unless they are huge. And my fuel screew is maybe an 1/8 of a turn in from factory.
8v let's race what's your 0-60 like with your bov wide open
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2 -
#27 by 8v-of-fury on 14 Jul, 2013 17:56
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This things gutless. I attempted a burn-out starting on a hill.. with bald tires.. Barely happened. 3k+ clutch feathering drop.
What the hell. Took the BOV screw and bottomed it out. This should effectively render it "shut" -
#28 by sprstu on 14 Jul, 2013 22:31
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I am dealing with this same problem, I have zero power at low rpm and very little peak boost.
I am running a fresh rebuilt 1.6 on a fresh rebuilt AAz-K14, no intercooler, stock MK1 TD air box, TT 2.5" downpipe and 2.5" full exhaust, and I have an unmodified pump. Boost gauge and EGT. Currently my EGT will climb much fast than my boost, cruising at 60mph and roughly 600 EGT and 0 registered boost. put my foot down in 5th and my egt will climb to 1200 well before I hit 9-10psi.
My old set-up was a worn out 1.6, same pump, K03 TDI turbo, small FMIC and 2.5" full exhaust and down pipe. That set-up was a rocket off the line and through the entire rev range. I could chirp tires pulling hard through 4 gears. Now I feel like a dog all over.
I am getting a nice film of soot but nothing like rolling-coal, just a haze under WOT. My first step will be turning in the wastegate screw, I have no idea what the rebuilder set it to, could be was soft. Next will be playing with my timing. I set it to .95mm and it sounds really good but I will move it around a bit and see how she runs.
Everything is still really new, like 200miles on total rebuild new, these might just be teething pains. -
#29 by libbydiesel on 14 Jul, 2013 22:37
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Took the BOV screw and bottomed it out. This should effectively render it "shut"
No, that doesn't keep it shut, it just raises the opening pressure to 14 psi or so. To keep it shut you need to pull the adjuster, drop in a spacer and then tighten the adjuster down on the spacer.
