Problems with TD pump

[alex17young]

Hey folks, I recently put a TD pump on my car. I don't know the history of pump but decided to give it a try. I did the gov the mod, seemed nice and clean inside, no rust. I timing it 1.04mm, it ran pretty good. I made some adjustments based on the "make your 1.6td faster" thread, star wheel down a half turn, and smoke screw down a little bit. It ran great, spooled the t3 much faster and less aggressively. I have an electric pump pushing fuel to the fuel filter. I had problems with hot stats, now it won't cold or hot start. The car pop starts and runs with no problems. I have white smoke at start up that clears after it warms up. I need some advice, try less timing? I'm going to switch back to my NA pump if I can't get the TD pump figured out. Thanks

[8v-of-fury]

Yup, too advanced. 1.04mm is really high. I'd knock it back down to like .95mm and try it there.

Do it while cold, so you can get a good cold start basis of how she starts .

[fatmobile]

Mainshaft seal might be going bad.
 A helper pump can help it go bad by shoving the seal up against the shaft by supplying pressure behind this seal.
 Whatever pressure is on the front of the pump will be behind this seal,..
which is normally 0 or a slight vacuum.

[quickrip]

  How many psi is the electric pump you installed putting out. I know on the cummins the ve injection pump will only take approx. 15 psi without pump mods to hold the seal in. I can guess that the same would apply here as well, but I dont know for a fact that these pumps wont accept a higher psi. Just a thought.

[alex17young]

I'll try backing down the timing, and the electric pump is a 4-7psi Napa jobby.

[libbydiesel]

From you description it sounds like you have an issue with cranking speed.

[8v-of-fury]

I have white smoke at start up that clears after it warms up.

And an advanced timing problem, slowing down his cranking speed .

[libbydiesel]

If he's using NA injectors, then 1.04 is too advanced.  With TD 155 bar injectors it should be fine.  The fact that his engine wouldn't start hot and now won't start at all with the starter, but push starts fine (I assume that's what he means by 'pop starts'), makes me think cranking speed. 

[alex17young]

I have plenty of cranking Ron's in my amateur opinion. It used to start at this timing now it won't. I'm shooting for .95mm, I'll have an update in a hour.

[alex17young]

Well I timed it to around .97mm had all kinds of issues with my Chinese dial indicator, junk. Took it for a test drive tons of white smoke, ran ok with the cold start lever out, rough idle with it pushed in. I see there's a small leak at the top of the pump, o ring on the throttle shaft I'd imagine. It hot started once, nothing after that. Think I'll put the NA pump back on tomorrow. 

[bajacalal]

It's sounds like air in it or not timed correctly. You sure you are really, actually at top dead center? Some of the gas flywheels are marked differently than diesel and the flywheel fits but the mark is not where it needs to be.

[alex17young]

I've had the head off, tdc is correct on the flywheel. The pump has to be pulling air. I think I can source another TD pump so I'll try again some other time. Thanks for the help fella's.

[bajacalal]

Why don't you just reseal the pump? Or have it done?

If you keep throwing used pumps on it, I think you're going to have leaks unless you reseal them. The new diesel causes the older seals to leak and I think they leak if they're left to sit a long time without being used. I didn't drive my Dodge truck (same pump) for 2 months over the winter last year and it was fine when I left it and then it leaked like a sieve.

[CrazyAndy]

I agree w/ baja; at least reinstall the NA pump temporarily, so that you can get the TD pump resealed to verify it won't pull air onto the internals.  Then the pump will be able to hold pressure and idle right.

Also, get yourself a better measuring tool than a Chinese knock-off; you really should have a good tool so that you can set the timing right the first time.

[8v-of-fury]

For informational purposes, the timing number is merely a "marker" and is not necessary for most circumstances.

I haven't used a timing gauge for the last dozen and a half pumps I have timed.

There is no "right" timing number when using a dial gauge in the end of the pump.