Please help me decide (TD into 73 bus)

[Turbinepowered]

Paging Andrew, RE: Quantum transmission offset

[speedy]

I FINALLY got a Jetta manifold!  Man what a pain that was, and I paid through the nose for it.  Oh well.  The turbo needs a major reclock in order to bolt on - how hard is this to do?  Is it as simple as removing the six (I think) bolts, rotating the inlet housing, and reinstalling the bolts?  I'm going to try it tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks,

-Dave

http://motorheads.net/vw/turbobus

[speedy]

Oh wait, are you doing the 15° install?  If so, scratch the oil return tirade...

Andrew

Heh.  :-)

Yes, I'm proceeding with the 15 degree install.  I removed the six bolts from the exhaust side of the center cartridge.  I expected the two sections to move at that point, but I expected too much I guess.  Unless I am misunderstanding things, it's stuck together pretty well.     Take a look - those two sections are supposed to come apart, right?  How do I proceed?   Heat?  BFH?  Both?

[speedy]

Jetta manifold sitting on the engine:

[speedy]

Never mind... got the turbo apart after several hours of soaking with Kroil followed by a couple hundred hammer blows.  I won't be able to clock it exactly vertical - looks like the best I will get is about 15 degrees (roughly inline with the engine block).  Major interference with the wastegate (gee, where have I heard THAT before??).  Does the Jetta have a different wastegate?  Or is the "bracket" that the oil drain hose attaches to different?  One of them has to be different, and whichever one it is, I need it.  By the time I'm finished with this project, I think I will have an entire Quantum TD engine left over.   :x  I should have started with a Jetta TD engine.

Oh yeah, in the picture above, the two studs extending outward from the intake manifold also interfere with the turbo.  That port was connected to the EGR on the Quantum, but this picture:


... shows the turbo supplying air to this port, with the port on top of the manifold being blocked off.  I think the Jetta install must block off the side port, or maybe the Jetta intake manifold does not have the side port at all.

[speedy]

Speedy, is the transmission in your donor Quantum an 013 or an 093?

Sorry, I missed this earlier.  How do I tell which tranny I have?  If you tell me where to look, I will find out which one it is.

-Dave

[jimfoo]

From earlier, to get more boost, put a bleed in the line between the
wastegate and turbo. To get clearance at the back of the head, find a
piece of aluminum, drill 2 intersecting holes at a right angle, drill 2 sets
of bolt holes-one through for the block, and one set tapped for the outlet.
bolt the outlet to one side, then bolt it to the block. I used "the right
stuff" on the block side with no leaks, and the o-ring seals the other
side.

Problem #2:  Water pipe coming out the back of the head extends 2", not including the hose.  Clearance for that is going to be tight.  The back of the turbo is also going to be close to the firewall which could be a major problem.  Won't know for sure until I get it in there.  Fortunately, the adapter plate will move the engine back a little which should help.

[jimfoo]

Not sure about the Jetta, but the Passat engine I have has the wastegate
close to the oil return. Intake only has a top hole.

 Does the Jetta have a different wastegate?  Or is the "bracket" that the oil drain hose attaches to different?  One of them has to be different, and whichever one it is, I need it.  By the time I'm finished with this project, I think I will have an entire Quantum TD engine left over.   :x  I should have started with a Jetta TD engine.

Oh yeah, in the picture above, the two studs extending outward from the intake manifold also interfere with the turbo.  That port was connected to the EGR on the Quantum, but this picture:
... shows the turbo supplying air to this port, with the port on top of the manifold being blocked off.  I think the Jetta install must block off the side port, or maybe the Jetta intake manifold does not have the side port at all.

[speedy]

You pretty much need the jetta oil return line.   :roll: Or fabricate one.  

I was at the dealer today and asked how much a new return hose was.  The answer: $200!   :shock:  I don't need it that badly.  I will try to find a used one or fab something up.

Thanks,

-Dave

[speedy]

To get clearance at the back of the head, find a
piece of aluminum, drill 2 intersecting holes at a right angle, drill 2 sets
of bolt holes-one through for the block, and one set tapped for the outlet.
bolt the outlet to one side, then bolt it to the block. I used "the right
stuff" on the block side with no leaks, and the o-ring seals the other
side.

Jim,

First of all, hats off to you for your conversion!  You are a wild man.  I like what you did with the heater port and the aluminum block also, but I may not even have room to do that.  I got out the straightedge last night and there is about 1" of clearance between the back of the cylinder head and the gas tank.  That means using the divider plate I painstakingly cleaned and coverd with sound deadener is out.  I am going to either have to "customize" the divider with a BFH or make a new divider out of sheet metal.  

The temp sender above that port has a spade connecter on it - I figure if I bend it to 90 degrees, I will be able to leave it there and have a few mm of clearance, but that's about it.  I will probably end up using Andrew's idea of blocking off the port completely and Teeing into the port on the side of the head for the heater.  Since my air-cooled bus doesn't currently have a heater, there is no rush and I will probably just block it off for now.

-Dave

[speedy]

Not sure about the Jetta, but the Passat engine I have has the wastegate
close to the oil return. Intake only has a top hole.

Thanks for the pictures.  I guess I will block off the hole in the side of the manifold - at least blockoff plates are not too difficult to make.  I'm happy to see that your engine has the same wastegate as mine - hopefully that means I just have to fab the oil supply and return lines and I will be done with the whole turbo mounting debacle.

I don't like the way the turbo is so close to the intake manifold in the Jetta installation.  Has anyone thought about making up a decent heat shield to go between them?

-Dave

[jimfoo]

If you look at the picture of my engine, you can see the factory heat shield
bolted on by the top port and extending down. It is the same color as the
manifold, so doesn't stand out.

[quote="speedy
I don't like the way the turbo is so close to the intake manifold in the Jetta installation.  Has anyone thought about making up a decent heat shield to go between them?

-Dave[/quote]

[witoke]

I did a Ford Pinto to '71 conversion back a few years ago. I tried various configurations of radiator in the back and found that I could never really get the airflow I needed, even with big dual electric fans. I ended up doing a front mount with long solid pipe and rubber radiator hose joints and the original little Pinto radiator. That worked like a charm without a fan.

Originally I used a 4 bar Jeep V8 radiator that fitted the engine door almost perfectly, sealed it with a surround, later adding sheet metal scoops underneath then then later still adding the big dual electric fans.

I still have the Jeep radiator if you have any use for it, just pay the shipping. It was a real blast to drive the Pinto van and fully loaded would cruise up the biggest hill around here in 4th. Kinda noisy but a lot of fun. A diesel should be a blast with all the torque.

[speedy]

Jim,

I managed to get a heat shield for the Jetta intake manifold (got both from Jack at vwdieselparts.com - nice guy) so I am set there.   Thanks
again for the pictures.

Got some updates to the web page:

http://motorheads.net/vw/turbobus

... if anyone is interested.  Almost have the left engine support finished, the right one will be a piece of cake since I think I can get away with just extending the bottom of the existing Quantum mount rearwards slightly
(it's steel).

Current things worrying me:

What to do about temp sender in the back of the head.  Do I really need it?  I was looking at the EKTA diagrams the other day and thought I saw two of those senders on the engine.  I need to look again - maybe one was for water temp.  If I could eliminate the temp sender on the back of the head, I could probably make the gas tank cover plate fit without
modifying the tank itself.  That would be nice.
[EDIT] I did a bunch of searching on this site and determined that the sender on the back of the head (drivers side for those with transverse-mounted engines) is the 0.25 bar low oil pressure switch.  It works in conjunction with the high-pressure switch on the oil cooler mount to operate the idiot light.  Now that I am aware of this, I think I will probably just plug the hole in the cylinder head and use my existing VDO dual sender in the oil cooler mount for the idiot light and dashboard oil pressure gauge.  Now all I have to do is find an M10x1.0 plug.   :roll:

Oil return line.  I can get adapters for the bottom of the turbo with
1/2" NPT or AN-8 or even a barbed fitting.  I don't know which one to
choose but I'm leaning towards the AN fitting and then taking the Quantum
drain hose to a local shop to have a braided teflon line made with AN-8
on one end and the original Quantum fitting (type unknown - what the
heck is it anyway?) on the other.
Or, I could cut the Quantum hose and extend it to meet the NPT or AN
fitting at the top.  This would be easier but maybe not as strong and
reliable.  Opinions?

-Dave

[speedy]

More updates to the '73 TD bus project - exhaust is nearly done:

http://motorheads.net/vw/turbobus/page4.html