Please help me decide (TD into 73 bus)

[Kudagra]

Yea they the MK8 fan is a bit hard find sometimes so they went to a Tore-ass.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FLX%2D365&N=700+0&autoview=sku

189.90..  Yep..your guess was pretty much on the spot

I think Ill be checking out some of the other cars with a tape measure to find something else. I like J/y fans...usually alot cheaper to replace.

[RabbitJockey]

you need to cool mutangs better?  my buddies 95 gt temp gauge barely moves, that thing runs super cool, i like trying to race him with my jetta haha.  actually when i raced his cousin who also has a stock 95 gt i could keep up a little bit, he definetly had a big jump off the line but then acceleration evened out on us when i got my boost and my front pumper stayed about even with the back edge of his door.  but of course he pulled  away then haha, but his car is an automatic

[speedy]

you need to cool mutangs better?  my buddies 95 gt temp gauge barely moves, that thing runs super cool, i like trying to race him with my jetta haha.  actually when i raced his cousin who also has a stock 95 gt i could keep up a little bit, he definetly had a big jump off the line but then acceleration evened out on us when i got my boost and my front pumper stayed about even with the back edge of his door.  but of course he pulled  away then haha, but his car is an automatic

I have a 347 stroker engine and I open-track the car in 100-degree heat here in Texas.  So yes, I need all the cooling I can get.     If you're keeping up with a '95 GT in your car, congrats - you are making some real power!

-David

[RabbitJockey]

like i said though he pulls away once i get into third gear, i'm doing low 16's and thats a 15 second car...  definetly not gonna act like i am keeping up with him for very long haha

[speedy]

I ordered the KEP conversion kit today.  He said they have a one-month backlog of orders!  D'ohhhhh!   :shock:

[speedy]

I've kept forgetting to mention and now I've remembered.   You don't have to change fuel tanks.  Just tee the return into the single line post filter.

Andrew

I considered that back when I was going to convert the bus to FI.  For gasoline, people were saying that if you Teed the return line into the supply line that the fuel would eventually overheat.  Now that I think about it, that's probably not an issue for diesel but the deed is already done - I have bought the tank so I might as well swap it now.   :roll:

[speedy]

I got a call from KEP - they have shipped the adapter kit so it should be here in a couple of days.  In the meantime, I have removed the old fuel tank and swapped in the 091 bellhousing.  I also got in some new parts - a new Sachs 228mm clutch kit, timing belt, oil pan gasket and valve cover gasket.  Still haven't pulled the Quantum engine - I need to get going on that.

[speedy]

The Quantum engine is out, and on an engine stand.  Took about three hours, taking pictures and labeling everything.  Not too bad.  Flywheel is 16lbs - pretty massive for a 1.6L but I understand that it's a diesel thing.  Same with the starter, it's big.  Won't be able to use either with the conversion.

Problem #1:  The passenger side motor mount connects to the bottom of the turbo and the oil drain passage is an integral part of it.  WTF?  Not sure how I would be able to reclock the turbo if I use that bracket.  Probably would have to make something custom.  The turbo is a KKK, by the way.

Problem #2:  Water pipe coming out the back of the head extends 2", not including the hose.  Clearance for that is going to be tight.  The back of the turbo is also going to be close to the firewall which could be a major problem.  Won't know for sure until I get it in there.  Fortunately, the adapter plate will move the engine back a little which should help.

Problem #3:  The accessory brackets.  A/C compressor and alternator are on the left side of the engine and would be hanging down pretty low.  I'd prefer to move them to the other side of the engine.  The crank pulley that connects to the A/C is adjusted with shims!  That sucks.  There doesn't appear to be any adjustment at all for the water pump belt.  That sucks too.  I'm starting to think of how nice it would be to have a serpentine setup.

Because of problems #1 and #3, I revisited the possibility of mounting the engine in the 15-degree configuration.  I took some measurements and lo and behold, it looks like it wouldn't be hanging down much lower than the stock engine after all.  It's only about 9" from the crank centerline to the bottom of the oil pan.  The stock engine measures the same, give or take an inch.  I will take more precise measurements next time I get out there to work on it.

[veeman]

For problem #2, perhaps you could fab up another flange that turns at a right angle to the block and cuts down that clearance issue.  A friend of mine did this with a gasser turbo VW engine he built.  I believe since the original spigot was cast alu, he had to make a flange out of stainless.

As for problem #3, are you running A/C?  If not, you can probably use the non-shim type crank pulley from another diesel.  As far as tensioning, that's normally done by the alternator adjustment (as you probably realize).  

I've seen people mount the alternator on the BACK side of the block like you're talking about, but it takes some fabrication work.  I'd check places like vwvortex for some photos / more info.   For a serpentine setup, you might be able to adapt the VW 2.0 liter (ABA and later engines) or perhaps some 1.8T components to make that work.  They both have serpentine belts

[Baxter]

Okay, I work on Vanagons all day every day, would any of you like to see some detail pictures of how VW did it?
If so the next time I get a TD in I will take some pictures for you if they are any use for future Vanagon TD conversions..

[speedy]

For problem #2, perhaps you could fab up another flange that turns at a right angle to the block and cuts down that clearance issue.  

Might be possible to do that, but it will be hard to make it much closer to the block than it already is.

As for problem #3, are you running A/C?  If not, you can probably use the non-shim type crank pulley from another diesel.  As far as tensioning, that's normally done by the alternator adjustment (as you probably realize).

Yes, I am running A/C.  I will probably keep the Quantum compressor for now, since it is already bolted to the engine.  There are two belts to get to the alternator.  The first one goes from the crankshaft to the A/C compressor - it is adjusted via shims on the crank pulley.  The other belt goes from the A/C compressor to the alternator and it is adjusted the regular way, with an adjustable bracket.

Pictures soon.

-David

[speedy]

Okay, I work on Vanagons all day every day, would any of you like to see some detail pictures of how VW did it?
If so the next time I get a TD in I will take some pictures for you if they are any use for future Vanagon TD conversions..

I'm sure everyone here would love to see some pictures (including me - the more info the better as far as I'm concerned) but many aspects of the Vanagon install will not apply to my '73.  

-David

[speedy]

I am going to go forward the 15-degree install for now.  I just took some more accurate measurements and was amazed to find that the stock 2-liter aircooled engine was 8.5 inches from the crankshaft centerline to the bottom of the sump while the same measurement on the 1.6TD engine was only 7.5 inches.  Yes, I will actually have MORE ground clearance with the 15 degree install than there was with the stock motor!  The 50 degree install would have ridiculous amounts of ground clearance but I don't need that.

Going with the 15-degree install solves all of the following problems:

1.  Need to tap oil pan for turbo oil return line
2.  Need to reclock turbo for proper drainage
3.  Complicates engine mounting due to angle of stock motor mount brackets (would have had to modify them, probably).
4.  Alternator and A/C compressor hang down too low, have to move them to the right side of the engine

... and creates a couple of new ones:

1.  Potential exhaust clearance issues
2.  Valve cover breather interferes with ceiling of engine compartment
3.  Less clearance above engine to work

That's likely an improvement, as long as the exhaust doesn't interfere too badly with the firewall.

-David

[HarryMann]

The 50 degree (52  think) install is neat in many ways, but has big questionmarks over oil return, turbo drain and even sump oil surge on corners... think you might have chosen the right one.

Problems maybe not unsolvable, but everything has to be spot on to avoid incipient problems - IMHO.

[speedy]

I put up a web page to document my progress:

http://motorheads.net/vw/turbobus

I pulled a lot of what I posted in this forum onto the web page.

Unfortunately, there is major interference between the firewall and the turbo outlet (exhaust side) with the 15-degree installation.  I thought about mounting the exhaust manifold upside down but as libbybapa said, there is major interference with the intake - no way that will work.

So, I bought a Jetta TD exhaust manifold on E-Bay today - it looks like it mounts the turbo more towards the center of the engine, which should fix the interference problem and hopefully won't create other problems.  I will still have to reclock the turbo but it should be a lot simpler than reclocking it for the 50-degree install.

I'm wondering if the Jetta exhaust manifold will bolt onto the Quantum engine without interfering with other stuff like the intake manifold, egr, etc.  Anyone know?  Also, what about the engine mount?  Does the Jetta connect the engine mount to the turbo like the Quantum does?  If so, does anyone have a spare Jetta engine mount for sale?

Thanks,

-David