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Turbo Diesel - the best combination of parts to build?
by
the4ork
on 06 Mar, 2006 13:05
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hey guys...
my 82 diesel jetta still runs, but its so slow and the gas mileage is getting worse and worse... and i really want to put a TD in there....
what is the ultimate combo to run as far as engine is concerned?
i would like to keep it IDI since its so hard to find TDI parts, especially at a decent price....
1.6TD head /w the "worked" TD injection pump + the TDI bottom end?
trying to build the motor under $4k if possible (minus accessories like the turbo)
or maybe i should go custom internals (head will be P&P regaurdless) and will be running a ball bearing turbo...
here is my car:
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#1
by
the4ork
on 06 Mar, 2006 13:07
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i guess what else would be helpful is if someone could also tell me what WONT work together...
like ive heard that some heads/blocks use different size headbolts...
im assuming a 1.9 block will be best... heads? i dont know, prabably the 1.9 as well. (will be P&P anyways)
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#2
by
BlackTieTD
on 06 Mar, 2006 13:11
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i'd go with a 1.6L TD (thats what i did in my '82), or a 1.9L TD. are you from the states? if you are then the 1.9LTD will be hard to get your hands on.
you could put a 1.9L head on a 1.6L block.
the 1.6Ls like to rev more, but with work on the internals the 1.9Ls can be made to rev.
the 1.9Ls have a crank bolt issue you would want to address.
i stuck with a plain ol' 1.6L TD from a 1990 jetta (MF engine code) for simplicity, cost, and reliability. been driving it two years now with the TD and i'm happy with it.
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#3
by
the4ork
on 06 Mar, 2006 13:20
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i'd go with a 1.6L TD (thats what i did in my '82), or a 1.9L TD. are you from the states? if you are then the 1.9LTD will be hard to get your hands on.
you could put a 1.9L head on a 1.6L block.
the 1.6Ls like to rev more, but with work on the internals the 1.9Ls can be made to rev.
the 1.9Ls have a crank bolt issue you would want to address.
i stuck with a plain ol' 1.6L TD from a 1990 jetta (MF engine code) for simplicity, cost, and reliability. been driving it two years now with the TD and i'm happy with it.
whats the reason behind why the 1.6L's like to rev more? is it because the rotating mass weighs less? better rod ratio? i've been thinking of going with a set of forged pistons just to take the extra heat, and some custom valves as well
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#4
by
wyldman
on 06 Mar, 2006 14:38
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Yes,the 1.6L's seem to rev a lot easier,due to a less mass in the bottom end.
The 1.6L's are a little more plentiful than 1.9L stuff.Good 1.9L stuff is getting real hard to find,even up here in Canada.
1.6L's are also cheaper to repair or rebuild than a 1.9L.
If you want to have fun on a budget,then get a used 1.6L TD,and turn up the fuel.It will make lots of power.If you want more,give it a quick rebuild (rings and rod brgs is all they usually need),redo the head (with some port work) and throw on a Giles pump,some GTD nozzles,a bigger turbo,and an intercooler.It will be plenty fun now.
Don't forget gauges,so you don't roast your new engine.
I think you'll find all of the stuff above will cost a fair bit,but still be within your budget.
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#5
by
HP
on 06 Mar, 2006 15:06
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If you want to have fun on a budget,then get a used 1.6L TD,and turn up the fuel.It will make lots of power.If you want more,give it a quick rebuild (rings and rod brgs is all they usually need),redo the head (with some port work) and throw on a Giles pump,some GTD nozzles,a bigger turbo,and an intercooler.It will be plenty fun now.
How much power (+/-), by the way?! +/-120hp?
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#6
by
the4ork
on 06 Mar, 2006 17:38
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ok so here are my plans then...
1.6TD motor...
GT25R turbo
tubular manifold
-12 oil return (yes i like overkill)
cam
port polish head, 5 angle valve job (should i go oversized valves?)
metal headgasket
Giles pump (anyone got a link)
bigger injectors
EGT probe
im thinking hydro head, adjusting the shims is a pita if you ask me...
and does anyone know if i can use my wideband for tuning it? or will EGT be enough?
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#7
by
the4ork
on 06 Mar, 2006 17:39
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oh, and whats the best eaily attainable intake manifold?
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#8
by
tylernt
on 06 Mar, 2006 17:44
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i've been thinking of going with a set of forged pistons just to take the extra heat, and some custom valves as well
Diesel pistons are a special design so you might have a hard time getting somebody to make some.
Stock turbodiesels have oil squirters that spray on the bottom of the pistons, that seems to be sufficient even for the guys running insane amounts of boost (over 20psi).
Another thought is to cut a notch in the piston tops between the two round depressions, which increases top end HP. I don't know the exact location but some searching here and on the forums at
http://www.vwdieselparts.com should turn it up.
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#9
by
chrissev
on 06 Mar, 2006 19:15
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i'd go with a 1.6L TD (thats what i did in my '82), or a 1.9L TD. are you from the states? if you are then the 1.9LTD will be hard to get your hands on.
you could put a 1.9L head on a 1.6L block.
yeah you can do that. I just did. There are a few issues with doing this like bigger precups (you lower the compression slightly) and the intake is different so you have to spend an hour or so modifying it so the turbo will fit (filing down and cutting off protrusions). Also there is a hole in the intake air pipe that the 1.9 manifold has no use for, has to be plugged. Other than that it seems to work (though I haven't tried starting it yet, still working on hooking up the exhaust). I'll let everyone know whether it blows up in my face tomorrow when I turn the key.....
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#10
by
malone
on 06 Mar, 2006 19:31
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I'll let everyone know whether it blows up in my face tomorrow when I turn the key.....
Good luck - I'm looking forward to your update :thumbup:
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#11
by
malone
on 06 Mar, 2006 19:51
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1.6TD head + TDI bottom end?
A 1.9L block and 1.6L head combo is actually the opposite of my preferred OEM IDI setup. The 1.6 block is a much better revver like a few people have already stated, and the 1.9 head flows better. Hence my setup.
Do you know how much more fun a stock 2.0L 16v is compared to a stock 1.8L 8v? That's like comparing a 1.6L to a 1.9L block respectively, concerning upper RPM performance.
If you get a 1.9 block, keep the 1.9 head that came with it.
However, as others have pointed out, the 1.9L IDIs were almost never sold in the USA so it'll be hard for you to find these parts. A 1.9L IDI head in need of rebuild in Canada may be found for $300-500 CAD. It's hard finding these here too.
You'll do fine with a well ported 1.6L head.
If there's room for oversized valves (I haven't checked), go for it.
With these headwork I'm sure you'll outflow a stock 1.9 head.
If you're going for a hydro head, you may need a hydro block (1986.5 or later).
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#12
by
the4ork
on 07 Mar, 2006 02:14
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so, the motor to build right now seems to be:
1.6 bottom end
1.9 head + cam + p&p
pdi 130 intake manifold
tubular turbo manifold...
now turbo sizing. this is where it gets tricky... originally i was thinking about a GT25R, which is rated to about 250hp. only thing is... its .64a/r which would be laggy... or i can go down to a GT22R... wich is a smaller a/r but, only rated to about 200hp...
but then i see you (malone) compound setup... and now my gears are turning and want to do it... but how do you size them? the perfect spool turbo + bigger turbo to meet your hp goals... so... GT22R+GT25/40R?
ahhh the possibilities are endles!!!
you need to school me up man.... i need to know more about this giles pump too, i want the ultimate pump!
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#13
by
the4ork
on 07 Mar, 2006 02:35
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actually.... i have a k26/to4e 57trim .63 a/r /w stageIII turbine sitting in my shed with about 2k miles on it...
almost forgot i had that thing... what can i use to spool that puppy up, cause on my 2.0T it wasnt makin 18psi until right before 5k rpm /w 8.5:1 cr... if i were to just run that on a tubular manifold, when would it spool? i know its a 1.6, but the way high compression should bring spool time down a bit right?
id still like to go compound tho, maybe /w a mid sized t3 /w .48 a/r
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#14
by
chrissev
on 07 Mar, 2006 05:13
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