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Best platform for idi build? by the4ork on 18 Feb, 2013 12:07
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I'm in Cali and diesel motors are few and far between, and I'm looking to scoop up a motor to start an idi build in a mki. My only requirement is a mechanical pump so I don't have to rewire the entire vehicle.
But what is the best option as far as availability, parts availability, hp/mpg?
I'd like to have the power of a gasser 8v and 50mpg... And to put a few hundred thousand miles on it.
1.5,1.6,1.9,tdi-m?
I'd also love to have a serpentine, ac but no ps. -
#1 by jboogie13 on 18 Feb, 2013 12:32
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your best bet would be a 1.6 as the 1.9's didnt come to the U.S and the 1.5's are even harder to find parts for. It wont be easy to put a serpentine belt on but honestly if you dont have AC or PS then the v belts really wont give you any problems.
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#2 by libbydiesel on 18 Feb, 2013 14:21
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Your best bet for your power and economy goals and to avoid wiring is to go mTDI but that is intrinsically not IDI.
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#3 by CRSMP5 on 18 Feb, 2013 14:33
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i 2nd libby... tdi-m.. i used rover pump w/gov mod of 4 washers.. pulled car, supplies, 3 people.. 80 mph no problems... hills no problems... its a 1z/ahu from 98 jetta.. 02a 5 speed.. runnin ~21psi on the stock turbo.. 2.5" straight pipe off turbo, real ic.. id say ~150hp.. keeping up with stock vr6 fun..
i did add double valve springs... they went to singles at one point.. i rev hell from mine no prob.. via math 6000 rpm it will pull.. tach not accurate at all..
that pic off i5 between san fran and la.. i towed that car back to ohio..
2 weeks and i think ill know how libby's m pump compaires to my rover pump.. me and bbob building his m tdi at moment to drop in it.. and he has a libby pump.. same intercooler, turbo size, tranny.. just vehicle weight almost 1k more.. but i think ill see how she feels..
rover pump = ebay uk... 200-300... libby pump 4 digits.. BUT libby is clean/rebuilt.. rover is a "core" as well it may need resealed so on.. till you try i tyou will never know.. so cannot think of more then a core.. -
#4 by 8v-of-fury on 18 Feb, 2013 16:28
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I 3rd the motion for an M-TDI 1.9L.
The power/torque, reliability, economy and parts are the shiznit. How common are they in Cali? No idea. But if your searching hard anyway.. its the way to go.
I have my AHU in my mk1 with a Land Rover pump. Stock .184" injectors, no inter cooler and on an 86 020 tranny. I also routinely pull 13-1500lbs of atv's around.. and when I am not I can do a 5th gear pull from 70km/h to 150km/h quickly. No such thing as down shifting for me anymore.... Can pull huge hills in 5th at anything over 1350RPM. -
#5 by libbydiesel on 19 Feb, 2013 06:57
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BUT libby is clean/rebuilt.. rover is a "core" as well it may need resealed so on..
Actually, the pumps I sell are brand new zero-mile units, not rebuilt. -
#6 by Jetmugg on 19 Feb, 2013 07:14
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I'm also fascinated by that USPS-style truck.
What's the story on that thing?
Steve. -
#7 by Adamksi on 19 Feb, 2013 08:38
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Landrover MTDI pumps over here can be bought silly cheap. Got mine for £30, rebuilt for £90 by a friend of a friend. All in works out about $150. With a K24 turbo, .240 nozzles it goes pretty damn well, and still returns 40mpg sat at 80-85mph, tone that down to around 70 and see 50mpg+
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#8 by JamesT on 19 Feb, 2013 10:42
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I'm also fascinated by that USPS-style truck.
What's the story on that thing?
Steve.
A kubvan built by Grumman for USPS. Powered by a VW motor, automatic tranmission, mk1 front suspension, a solid rear axle, aluminium body, utilitarian interior.
I also like the fact that on an IDI board, the consensus on which IDI is the best platform to start with is a TDI. That really inspires confidence. -
#9 by wolf_walker on 19 Feb, 2013 10:56
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I'm in Cali and diesel motors are few and far between, and I'm looking to scoop up a motor to start an idi build in a mki. My only requirement is a mechanical pump so I don't have to rewire the entire vehicle.
But what is the best option as far as availability, parts availability, hp/mpg?
I'd like to have the power of a gasser 8v and 50mpg... And to put a few hundred thousand miles on it.
1.5,1.6,1.9,tdi-m?
I'd also love to have a serpentine, ac but no ps.
Do you have a diesel chassis to put it in? I'm not up on what the deal is swapping in diesels in CA.
As for motor, it's budget and luck. I'd buy the best one that is at least a 1.6TD that you can afford.
If it's a TDI great. Last I looked around one could still find a 1.9L AAZ in good shape cheaper than
a TDI, and a 1.6TD is no slouch if it's carefully built but most of them are old now and needing a rebuild.
If one can suddenly buy a TDI long-block with reasonable mileage for $700 or so that is probably the way to go
as long as your budget isn't going to stall you out with the pump and turbo and such. -
#10 by justiz00 on 19 Feb, 2013 11:07
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On my build (which is nowhere near done) I have more invested than would have taken for an mTDI. If I had to do it again. Probably go mTDI but I will stick with my idi project.
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#11 by bbob203 on 19 Feb, 2013 11:14
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I'm also fascinated by that USPS-style truck.
What's the story on that thing?
Steve.
A kubvan built by Grumman for USPS. Powered by a VW motor, automatic tranmission, mk1 front suspension, a solid rear axle, aluminium body, utilitarian interior.
I also like the fact that on an IDI board, the consensus on which IDI is the best platform to start with is a TDI. That really inspires confidence.
The guy asked abou tdi m in a idi board. -
#12 by bajacalal on 19 Feb, 2013 11:46
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Landrover MTDI pumps over here can be bought silly cheap. Got mine for £30, rebuilt for £90 by a friend of a friend. All in works out about $150. With a K24 turbo, .240 nozzles it goes pretty damn well, and still returns 40mpg sat at 80-85mph, tone that down to around 70 and see 50mpg+
Can you pick these up at just any scrap yard in the UK? Is there a certain part of the UK where these vehicles would be more common than other parts? I think plane tickets to Heathrow may be in my near future. I bet if I could get a few of them, the trip would pay for itself.I also like the fact that on an IDI board, the consensus on which IDI is the best platform to start with is a TDI. That really inspires confidence.
Look at it this way... The IDI engine is 1970s technology. The TDI engine is 1990s technology. Between the 1.6 and the TDI engines, there are 20 years of improvements in the field of automotive engine design and materials science. Of course the TDI engines are going to be objectively better (minus the wonky electronic controls, but that's the whole point of swapping the mechanical pump in the first place).Do you have a diesel chassis to put it in? I'm not up on what the deal is swapping in diesels in CA.
It's fairly straightforward. You go to the DMV and have the right person change the "G" to a "D" on your title. Sounds easy right? I know someone who has done it a number of times, and it takes a fair bit of hassling but it gets done. It would probably go a lot smoother if you made an appointment for something like "correction to title" on a slow day or something. When I brought my Golf in, they had to verify my diesel engine (which involved some lady following me outside, looking at my engine, deciding that it was probably diesel) to give me a "D" title. This was because the state it came from did not specify the fuel on the title. In all seriousness, it's totally legal to swap an engine from one car to another, as long as you stick to certain parameters. The engine is supposed to be "newer" than the car. It's supposed to be a "road" engine, not something out of your John Deere. It's supposed to have whatever emissions equipment went with that engine. Because of that, I wouldn't specify that it's a TDI if they ask, but say it's something like a "1985 Jetta turbodiesel engine..." which is what I have in my Golf. As far as this discussion goes, I'd rather have an m-tdi. Those are all federal laws about engine swaps, by the way. But only California really bothers to enforce them.QuoteAs for motor, it's budget and luck. I'd buy the best one that is at least a 1.6TD that you can afford.
If it's a TDI great. Last I looked around one could still find a 1.9L AAZ in good shape cheaper than
a TDI, and a 1.6TD is no slouch if it's carefully built but most of them are old now and needing a rebuild.
If one can suddenly buy a TDI long-block with reasonable mileage for $700 or so that is probably the way to go
as long as your budget isn't going to stall you out with the pump and turbo and such.
I've never seen a TDI go that cheap. People seem to know what they're worth around here. In some other states I think you can get a rusted out TDI Jetta for under $1000 but I don't think you can do it here. You might want to look for a complete vehicle, that was wrecked or something, which you may be able to pick up for around $1000, to pull the necessary parts then scrap it (you might earn a couple hundred back on the steel, etc., if you do all the hauling yourself). Or look for a beat up old TD Jetta, if you want to go that route. I have seem them pop up on craigslist from time-to-time. There is also a place in Chino that had a lot of used diesel VW engines for sale. I think they were getting them from Europe. I can't seem to find them anymore, so I'm not sure they're still there, but I'll post if I do find the business.
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#13 by shorttimer on 19 Feb, 2013 15:34
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There's plenty of diesels in Ca, if you're willing to spend the money. How you intend on using the vehicle will dictate how you do the build. Or what you may need for your vehicle, which in your case will need to have AC because of the summertime heat. Being as I moved away from the valley to avoid the heat, and hardly ever return, I just don't want it & all the hassles. If you're like me, I need a vehicle which will not leave me stranded , gets good mileage, and will hopefully run good for the next, say, 20 years. So I'm building it with longevity in mind. I don't think it's possible to do it on the cheap. My brother did, but he spent a lot of time working on it. I'd rather not. Just my opinion.
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#14 by the4ork on 19 Feb, 2013 15:36
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your best bet would be a 1.6 as the 1.9's didnt come to the U.S and the 1.5's are even harder to find parts for. It wont be easy to put a serpentine belt on but honestly if you dont have AC or PS then the v belts really wont give you any problems.
it will have a/c but no ps