Wierd ACC issue

[DieselBalz]

I tried the search but didnt find anything with this particular symptom. I installed my catch can today and while doing so, I went ahead and fixed a few annoying things with my gauges. (burnt out lamp and boost not working). Got all that taken care of and when I took it on the test drive, the EGT wasnt registering temp.

Figured that out and as I was swapping the wires around, I touched the hot for that gauge to either the ground or another lead, when I did this the radio and lights in the gauges flickered then out. I am using the radio lead as my hot for the gauges. So I checked the fuse, fine. I grabbed the key while in the ignition to take it out, and when I did I pushed it forward some, when I did that the radio and lights in my gauges popped on. But it doesnt stay, I have to hold the key pushed in to the ignition for it to stay on.

All other electrics work fine. Wipers, lights, instrument cluster and lights, all normal.

Did I blow a relay maybe? I dont get why it works when I hold the key in the ignition if I blew a fuse or relay.

Thanks in advance!

[CRSMP5]

burnt switch...

add a "fog light relay" that that wire can turn on/off... radio power yes... but gauges/their lights will melt that switch.. too much current...

fog light relay...

#30 is hot off batt
#87 goes to rad/gauges
#86 ground
#85 your switch wire...

[CRSMP5]

Mechanical stuff I am decent. electrical stuff not so much. Could you go into a little more deatil? Which switch did I burn? Can I replace it? Is what you speak of with the fog light relay a work around, or am I plugging a different relay in to the one I burnt out?

Sorry for being an idiot with this stuff. I appreciate ya replying to the thread.

ignition switch... the "acc" is a light gauge terminal originally designed for the donger.. your key in hole... thinggy...

it can turn the radio on... but if you put too many things on it or 1 big thing.. it melts the switch...

"fog light relay" refers to a load reduction relay... most people buy them when adding fog lights to a car... the x relay that powers your blower/wipers.... go price that "x relay" vs a fog light relay at a parts store... same thing.. 20$ more...

sadly with the invent of "micro relays" they now have a small version to.... can swap with x relay.. no... wrong pin out due to size.. but fo rtucking in dash.. good.. why i gave the terminal numbers...

you would have to make your own harness... its a add on thing like your gauges...

food for your thoughts... i also run my headlight switch power off that relay... i cannot ever leve parking lights on when key not in car.. a spare key blank thats never been cut works for when you need to use them for park... just stick it in hole.. been doing that mod for 23 years on every car i own/drive..

[TylerDurden]

That's a good tip.

Bentley shows that wire (brown/red-stripe) on current track 12 from ignition switch terminal SU, leading to current track 92, seat belt warning.

Tap into that wire to close a relay for the higher current devices.

[CRSMP5]

well that wire color changes thru out the years... back to bug days and crap... but it always smallest wire in plug...

fyi 90ish passats started to tap into it for the radio... along with programmable timming delay wiper relay.. plugs right into older then 75 vw too.. same switch... vw uses the time length between turning off the it mit wipers then back on to set its timmers... bet most mk3 people do not know this...

[DieselBalz]

Ok so I think I got it.

I burnt up this

http://www.partsplaceinc.com/products/product-detail.aspx?keyword=VW+Jetta+Ignition+Switch+6N0-905-865&sku=12191

and I can replace it, and risk the chance of frying it again.

Could I just run my own hot from the battery, and then through the relay, and a toggle switch? Ill have to remember to kill the switch when I get out. I have that stuff lying around the utility room, and it would be kinda cool to have my gauges (and radio) on a toggle.

[8v-of-fury]

you could either replace the switch and have IT trigger the relay with the big current going from battery through relay to the stereo and gauge lights..

or yes you could run a toggle switch on the dash doing the same thing..

I drive an 84, I have added more relays to it than it came with from factory NOTHING runs through the fuse box anymore.. thats a lie, the cabin fan is the only big power that runs through teh fuse box.

[DieselBalz]

Im gonna run a toggle. I found a few wiring diagrams online, I get it. Question though, think I could run a 12v power outlet, along with the radio, and gauges? Or would that be too much.

[CRSMP5]

dude.. buy a freeken relay and learn!!! that relay.. as soon as you understand how it works... you will know how a vw and many others work... it is doing same thing as a toggle.. but key does it...

else learn how to read a wiring schematic, +15 is hot w key, 99.9% vw use BLACK for this... and that also will do what you seek...

now my tip on headlight/parking light... it has the hot off batt... ground connection block usually up behind headlight switch area of dash.... you have your acc wire... thats 3 wires needed for said relay... 4th goes to gauges extra lighter so on... those relays, well good ones are usually 30 amp... so yea lots of lighters.. lights... so on... i suggest a real power source vs headlight switch power for more then 10amp..



i have a batt cable inside so i cheated for main power.. but below radio is 3 lighters.. hot all time, hot with key in, hot with key on.. each powered from 3 relays.. just how turned on different in each... mine so good when you crank it over the volt gauge does not "shut off" like most are wired.. all but the fuel pump circuit looses power for sec when cranking... well if i got a bad batt i want to see volt when starter load applied... most do not..

relays will/can make headlights brighter by eliminating the voltage drop made by vw wiring harness.. so learn them...


see how stuff turns you into hippy.. just look at facial hair in the ~19 months between pics.. .

[8v-of-fury]

Does adding the relay negate the need for an inline fuse? Another question. All the relays I am looking at have an 87 and an 87a.

Do I just ignore that? What is it for? Question though, think I could run a 12v power outlet, along with the radio, and gauges? Or would that be too much.

You don't need to run a fuse, as it will still function properly without it.. But if the wire shorts.. it is going to catch on fire with no fuse inline. Short answer? EVERY ELECTRICAL CIRCUIT requires a fused power source.

The 87A terminal is powered when the power is taken away from the 85 or 86 (depending on which is the ground and power) terminal of the relay. Meaning you can power two separate circuits based on key on and key off. You turn the key on and 87 is energized, you turn the key off an 87a is energized. If you are not using 87a ignore it.

Here is a beauty diagram to show how they work. 30 is always hot, you send a small amperage through the 85/86 electromagnetic coil pulling the internal metal piece carrying 30's voltage down to contact 87, take power from 85/86 and the contact releases to contact the 87a.

[CRSMP5]

8v you know bosh makes them with 2 #87s also right? so you can t off a supply like both lows or highs..

also 8v you can use the ground as on off too.. not just power on 85/86.. say you wanna use door closer type of switch, or like on my 02a the backup light switch.. i have 55w flood light for back up light.. no relay = melted switch.. those switches melt with the 7 or so watt stock pair..

the 87a style relay 8v shows is common.. just pat attention for 87a vs 87...

most all zone/o'riely/advance type of stores sell the 4 prong, no extra 87s why i only discussed it.. and all you need is the little one for what your doing.. micro one 1/3rd size of the common sized one.. but either works.. just need the numbers.. listed in my original post

[ORCoaster]

You don't need to run a fuse, as it will still function properly without it.. But if the wire shorts.. it is going to catch on fire with no fuse inline. Short answer? EVERY ELECTRICAL CIRCUIT requires a fused power source.

It is Sunday but even if it were not,   AMEN TO THAT!!!!!

[DieselBalz]

I ran a fuse. Was just clarifying. I tried running the relay. Thought I had it all wired up right but it didnt work. I know I screwed something up.

I ran hot lead from battery to 30
86 to ground
87 to rad and gauges
85 to the power lead on the toggle

grounded the toggle, and ran the ACC lead from the toggle to the radio/gauges

Turned it on, nothing.

I seen a few diagrams online where 85 was ground and 86 to item being powered. Switched the leads nothing. So then I thought maybe the power needed to go to the toggle, and the ACC from toggle to the 30. So I switched those leads, everything popped on, and the toggle was functional.

So when I was doing this, I was just loosely putting things in place so I could figure it out, and mark everything, than button it up nice. While getting ready to do this I accidentally pulled the lead off the 30. Nothing went out, than I pulled off the 86 lead, and everything was working. So I pulled the other two off, everything working. 

I have a lead connected to my gauges and radio that goes nowhere and a ground that goes nowhere. Since everything was working I taped off the leads and buttoned everything up. It was getting late and had lost patience. I have a week off starting next friday where I might go at it again.

Please feel free to explain the errors of my ways. I really wanted to do this relay. Thanks for helpin out.

Also, holy jeez thats some facial hair!

[8v-of-fury]

8v you know bosh makes them with 2 #87s also right? so you can t off a supply like both lows or highs..

also 8v you can use the ground as on off too.. not just power on 85/86.. say you wanna use door closer type of switch, or like on my 02a the backup light switch.. i have 55w flood light for back up light.. no relay = melted switch.. those switches melt with the 7 or so watt stock pair..

Yeah baby, both four and five pin are common. Didn't know about the dual 87a 6 pin though! shweet. I may pick some up!

I tried running the relay. Thought I had it all wired up right but it didnt work. I know I screwed something up.

I ran hot lead from battery to 30
86 to ground
87 to rad and gauges
85 to the power lead on the toggle

Please feel free to explain the errors of my ways. I really wanted to do this relay. Thanks for helpin out.

Also, holy jeez thats some facial hair!

Is it a three spade switch or a two spade? Reason I ask is they work differently.

Usually the three spade switch requires its own ground because it works the light internal of the switch. So a three switch would need a ground, 12v from either switched or a hot source, and then the third to the relay 85 or 86, depending on how you do yours.

The two spade switches only require 12v switched or hot on one side and then the other side goes to the 85 or 86 on the relay, depending on how you do yours.

I'll draw you up a diagram!!

[8v-of-fury]

HAH! didnt have to!

Ignore the indicator altogether. And pretend everything left of the red dot by the headlights is your gauges and whatever else. the line going ot the fuse box could come from the ignition switched 12v, or as I like to do it.. just grab the 12v from the 30 terminal. As in two wires in that one spade terminal. It is already a fused hot 12v source.. it will allow you t o work this system separate of the ingniton switch. = no key needed.