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ECOdiesel swap into 1981 Mk1 Diesel Rabbit L Need advice
by
keithnsage
on 04 Feb, 2013 00:07
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ECOdiesel swap into 1981 Mk1 Diesel Rabbit L Need advice
Son wants to put an ECOdiesel into 1981 Mk1 Diesel Rabbit L. Basically swap Mk2 (Jetta?) guts into Mk1 body.
Requesting any advice, additional info, suggestions, success stories, comments, corrections, etc.
Original 1.6L diesel NA timing belt failed and destroyed the head.
Swapped in a 1.5L with a 4-speed from a '79 or '80 rabbit to get it home.
The 1.5L had bad blow-by / low compression and eventually refused to start.
Have the blown 1.6L with 5-speed trans, and have 1.5L with 4-speed trans for parts or what ever.
Son saw an ad for a "1.6L Turbo diesel engine and trans. complete." He wanted a Turbo for more power. Turns out that it's an ECOdiesel - better on emissions, not sure about more power.
Son bought the ('91 or '92? not sure I haven’t got to look at it yet) ECOdiesel engine with 5-speed trans. It did NOT come with the AC compressor, PS, or 90 Amp ALT. I will try to get to it to look at it and get numbers off the head, engine, and transmission.
Will this go into the Mk1 Rabbit? How easy or difficult, or is it even possible?
After reading many forums, many issues seem to be apparent.
Most of the threads about ECOdiesel into an Mk1 are about swapping ECOdiesel parts onto a 1.6L to make a franken-motor with a sometimes successful (?) end result after various tricks/adaptations; including but not limited to having to modify or customize exhaust connections and shift linkage parts.
I haven't found threads about swapping an ECOdiesel into a Mk1 Rabbit saying "this is how I did it," like other swap/build threads usually do. They start with, "Hey, that's what I'm planning to do," and then there are no success / Hey, it worked -This is what I had to do, kind of stories.
ECOdiesel came Standard WITH PS, AC, larger ALT, larger radiator?, 3-speed fan switch, Cruise control, and various other peculiarities specific to it.
ECOdiesel V/drive belts for AC, PS, ALT, Water pump; apparently the components mounting, tensioning, and drive belt arrangements make it difficult if not impossible to do an AC and PS delete and still be able to drive the ALT and water pump. The water pump on the ECOdiesel allegedly had a freewheeling/clutched pulley. The ALT was a 90 AMP because of AC and had a larger housing and mounting boss.
From what I understand, if a component was an option then there were some without that option. This gives the possibility of doing deletes by using the brackets or whatnot from a car/unit without the option. Kind of skipping over the fact that some engine or head castings for with options are probably different from without.
If options were as standard equipment and no option not to have it, then there isn't a readily available method to do a delete in some cases. I found this out looking for ECOdiesel AC delete and PS delete – not a very fruitful search result.
Another issue is that not very many of the '91-'92 Jetta ECOdiesel exist, so junkyard, Pick-N-Pull, and sourcing additional parts is more than a challenge than finding Diesel Rabbit parts - and those are hard enough to find. I would also guess that replacement parts from parts houses are hard to find and expensive.
I get this feeling that a bunch of stuff may not be compatible or do-able.
Engine and transmission mounts
I've seen a couple of things that say the engine mounts are different due to Yr/Mdl difference and because of the Turbo. On one thread I found that specifically the rear engine mount has a provision for the oil line to go through it. We don’t have that mount (that I know of) and I doubt it would fit an Mk1 body.
Other ponderings:
Transmission; shift linkage; in one thread the exhaust interferes with the shift linkage and had to be modified in several paces; one piece shortened and welded back together, another piece bent some way, and a home-made bracket for something else – sheesh.
Transmission reverse light switch
Axle flanges size 90mm vs 100mm?
Probably have to relocate fuel filter
Turbo & manifold clearance to firewall may be an issue
Heat shields- 2; 1 at firewall (don't have), and the other (don't have) between intake and turbo???
Exhaust down pipe (toilet bowl?) lower on ECO than Mk1. Diameter piping - unknown.
Oil cooling / Intercooler?
V-belt pulleys and related parts that we need to work; ALT (60AMP from one of the other Rabbit guts), water pump.
Swap ALT mount from 1.6 to ECO?
Am I forgetting something here?
Anything else?
Sorry for the long-windedness and noobish post. I’d like to do the homework / research before we get into an insolvable project that might turn into nightmare. Maybe I’m over thinking this.
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#1
by
keithnsage
on 04 Feb, 2013 00:09
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This is an additional info and attempt to post donor pics post.
There's a sticker on the valve cover that says "TURBO DIESEL." I have no idea if ECOdiesels were labeled that way or not.
Well, the numbers on the IP on this thing doesn't come up as an ECOdiesel IP.
Here's the numbers off the IP:
NR 0 460 494 152 <- wrong #
NR 0 460 494 182 <- RIGHT #
R 223 BT 4007
068 130 081 F
It has an 020 FF tranny (not sure yr) and looks like an Mk1 mount on the Passenger end.
Didn't have much time to get ID numbers / codes off the various guts. Will do when have more time.
Anyone recognize this animal?
Eng+Trans
Looks like an Mk1 mount to me, but I'm new to this stuff.
EngPasMntSide
EngSideAccsryBrkt
Turbo-Exhst-DwnPipe
Also, the bracket that holds that oil return line that would need to be modded to clear the Mk1 mount is gone.
TurboExhstModedOilLn
hmm... no pics, new to this. There has got to be an easier way to link pics from flickr. I tried just about every option before I got links to the pics below the pics, and well... it works, sort of.
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#2
by
TylerDurden
on 04 Feb, 2013 05:39
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I'll add to what I posted on the other board...
The mounts for the chassis are MK1, so it is close to ready for swapping.
The downpipe may interfere with the stock mk1 shift linkage, but a custom unit won't break the bank.
The pulleys for the waterpump & alternator can be replaced with non-freewheeling versions without much issue (maybe some shimming).
The little ECO turbo will give a nice bump in power, but not killer.
The numbers of the plate on the block and a close-up pic of the head behind the IP should tell what you really have (mech or hydro head, turbo or NA block ).
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#3
by
theman53
on 04 Feb, 2013 06:58
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I don't understand and it was too long to follow your first post completely.
The Eco, 1.5, 1.6n/a, and 1.6TD all will bolt into a MK1 if you have the engine mount *you do* and trans mount *you do* If it is a diesel car to swap to then it is simple. Fix the exhaust to fit, add or remove a/c and power steering to match the car. Everything else should be the same or close enough and easy. For instance, you may need to move the fuel filter as the airbox is different, but this isn't something crazy. All 8v 75-99 Vw engines would be an easy swap into your car. They are not that different.
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#4
by
madrogers
on 04 Feb, 2013 08:11
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just finised with swap two weeks ago useing a 1.6TD from a 91 jetta, moved the fuel filter to the back side of tower 5 inches apx. to make room for the intake pipeing and modifyed the jetta air filter box to fit nice on that r/s , had to weld up/ move the exhast pipe a bit to clear the shift linkage. did find it easyer to install engine to r/s mount then install trans afterward . be careful of the top two trans bolts one may be longer than the other and bottem out in the hole and braking the block (saw a post here on that).
recommend changeing the timeing belt/ tensioner before installing $35.00 kit from AZAUTOHUSE.and valve cover gasket.
did have a issue that when i replaced the timing belt, the I/P ft seal started to leak i was moveing the shaft of it checking for play/wear there was a bit but just enought to crack the old seal, installed new seal and its been good to go now. i made up a belt idler for the fan belt from the alt to crank on the top side to take the whip out and stop alt from slipping but hope to post that soon on the UPGRADES section.
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#5
by
millertime
on 12 Feb, 2013 20:06
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I just finished a painfull 5 month swap. It should have not taken that long but i made some mistakes. And it was an ecodiesel. Good luck finding that mount that goes around the turbo oil drain. I would check with quality german in california. Thats were I got my engine from.
One big mistake i made and kept making was timing, get the kit to hold your cam and fuel pump in place before you pull the belt and make sure its all at tdc before separating the tranny.
I made my intake witch was easy just get a 2 inch to 3 inch ruber adapter from an auto parts place and then i put cheapo autozone tubing on there and some aftermarket tuner baby filter.
I have a mk 2 so the down pipe diddn't interfere with anything else so i lucked out there but had a custom exhuast made. While the exhuast is out I would change the shifter ball if mk1s have one of those.
Any other questions feel free to ask.
I got my turbo rebuilt and part of the warranty required getting a new oil feed line. Well after about a month of searching one of my buddies that works at cummins told me to take it a hose shop. The made one from high heat ruber on the spot for 35 bucks. Now I smell something burning and Im keeping an eye on that house. I really hope it holds. im thinking the burning could be the new paint on the turbo but i dont know.
Oh almost forgot. On the top of the intake manifold where the rubber hose comes in from the turbo there is a flat spot. Drill and tap this for a boost guage sending unit.
Oh and i spent a good hour trying to get my alternator to tension. Get rid of the whole system and get a
http://www.biconet.com/birds/GIFs/stealth/acc/cableTensioner2.jpg what ever one of those bolts is called with eyes on both sides. Cost me like 5 bucks at the hard ware store and i had washers laying around. So easy. I had a buddy hold the alternator with the belt on while i put the bolts threw the alternator bracket and eys and then tensioned it right up.
Good luck with every thing.
James
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#6
by
TylerDurden
on 12 Feb, 2013 20:38
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^^^^ The smell is likely the paint, but keep your eyes peeled for oil leaks.
No worries on the motor mount, the MK1 mount is different (goes out to the right side). The small bracket for the line is a good idea tho.
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#7
by
8v-of-fury
on 12 Feb, 2013 21:10
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This has been done at least a trillion times over. The information is out there
. Trust me, I've written some of it lol.
All the 4 cylinder Volkswagen engines from 74-2004.5 share the same block, and therefore for the most part (most definitely the important holes) all have the same mounting holes.
Put ALL of your mk1 engine stuff on the mk2 engine and its a direct bolt in swap. The only thing is the mk2 exhaust manifold is over to the drivers side a few inches which interferes with the shifter linkages. But creativity can overcome that, I have done it twice. Two separate 1.6 TD engines, two separate mk1 cars. First one took a weekend, the second one took 8 hours for two people.
I can tell from your pictures the engine already has mk1 mounts on it, an those are 90mm axle hubs on the FF/FN 020. So as it sits.. it is a direct bolt in right now as we speak.
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#8
by
keithnsage
on 08 Mar, 2013 21:38
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It's in. It's Alive. It doesn't like hills.
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#9
by
ORCoaster
on 08 Mar, 2013 21:55
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Turn in the fuel screw by a quarter turn and adjust idle down a tad. Sounds like it lacks fuel to pull against a load.
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#10
by
8v-of-fury
on 09 Mar, 2013 07:23
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I DUNNO what turbo the eco runs off hand.. But I am pretty sure that it is not smaller than the ko3 on the 1.9's.
Therefore you should theoretically have a good piece off power with this install.
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#11
by
TylerDurden
on 09 Mar, 2013 10:27
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ECOs, got the k14... pretty small.
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#12
by
8v-of-fury
on 09 Mar, 2013 17:17
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I disagree. Yeah its small compared to a BIG Holset
.
People recommend the k14 as an upgrade for the 1Z/AHU engines that got the ko3..
I can tell you right now I am maxxing my 020 clutch with a ko3...
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#13
by
libbydiesel
on 09 Mar, 2013 17:21
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For anything less than 18 psi intercooled, the K14 is a better choice than any of the larger bolt-on VW turbos.
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#14
by
theman53
on 09 Mar, 2013 18:57
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The Eco K14 is smaller than the AAZ K14...