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1.6 to AEF SWAP by BoostedOne on 01 Feb, 2013 22:41
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First I am in the US, so I have no idea how this engine even got here, and finding info on it is even tougher.
Second, I have never worked on a 1.9, so I don't even know what the US spec ones look like..
So i have a 1.6D in my 82 Caddy thats wore out. Low oil pressure, pitted cylinder walls from sitting, needs a rebuild..
I 500 miles to pick up a donor motor to build on New Years, then a couple of days later I find this guy on Craigslist selling some NA 1.9D thats brand new(not rebuilt).. The kicker is though he knows virtually nothing about it.. It was bought in a big auction lot full of diesel stuff.. He bought it because of all the semi truck engine stuff....
The engine I got is a long block. The only thing it came with aside from the long block is an oil pump, and what I am HOPING is the correct timing belt.
No crank gears, no intermediate shaft pulley, and no cam gear...
Problems I can see right now:
1)Before I got it, I assumed I could transfer over all my timing gears. Unlike my 1.6(and every other VW 4 cylinder I ever saw), instead of having a notch in the crank for the timing gear, this one has a machined flat on the crank snout.. The crank snout almost looks like a "D". Can I get a crank gear off something easy to source in the states, like an AHU or ?
2) Similar to 1, the intermediate shaft... I have never pulled the pulley off a 1.6D, but I assume the intermediate shaft looks like a gasser at the snout.. This one looks like it has a groove cut in it(instead of a half moon key slot). Or would the one off my 1.6 be the same in that respect?
3) Cam gear: Its tapered like a 1.6 cam snout, assuming its going to be the same, but while I'm asking....
4) Vacuum pump options: The hole in the block for the vacuum pump looks HUGE compared to whats on a 1.6. Do the AHU's use a vacuum pump I can use?
5) Valve cover is different.. doesn't look to use the 10 bolts, only 2 down the middle into the cam caps and 2 by the cam sprocket?
I'm assuming I can use the 1.6 inj pump bracket?
Thanks! -
#1 by BoostedOne on 02 Feb, 2013 00:06
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Ok been on the computer for several hours and looks like everything from an ahu will work.
Sent from my MB865 using Tapatalk 2 -
#2 by RabbitJockey on 02 Feb, 2013 08:56
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U figured it out then haha basically all tdi or aaz stuff will work for u the intermediate shaft pulley is smaller on 1.9
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#3 by libbydiesel on 02 Feb, 2013 09:13
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Is AEF an IDI or TDI? Post some pics.
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#4 by bbob203 on 02 Feb, 2013 10:37
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Is AEF an IDI or TDI? Post some pics.
I think its an IDI na from a polo. -
#5 by R.O.R-2.0 on 02 Feb, 2013 11:03
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we need pics and info...
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#6 by danster on 02 Feb, 2013 15:07
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The AEF is common over in Europe. It is similar to a 1Y 1.9 IDI.
But when fitted in the Polos it is canted forward and oil dipstick is in the back of the block so you will have to drill out the front to take the normal front fitting dipstick.
This link won't last for ever as it is UK ebay but it shows the engine. I am sure you could search for others to see more detailed pics.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-CADDY-SEAT-INCA-2000-1-9-DIESEL-ENGINE-CODE-AEF-/320697914823?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CommercialVehicleParts_SM&hash=item4aab15d5c7
EDIT. And make sure you use the Golf clutch pressure plate, as the AEF pressure plate is different because the engine lies forward and the flywheel needs orientated differently so the TDC mark lines up in the gearbox bell housing. -
#7 by MJF on 03 Feb, 2013 12:03
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AEF water pump housing connecting bolts are in different location than 1,6. AEF has alternator, water pump and power steering pump with one serpentine belt, which I liked. Engine mount bolts are M10 instead of M8 that every other block has. The one in front of block, under timing belt. Timing belt is narrower than other diesel engines. Crank gear and belt are AEF only stuff. AAZ or TDI timing belt and TDI crank gear will fit.
I have AEF in my Audi quattro, several minor differences to other diesel engines. -
#8 by danster on 03 Feb, 2013 12:22
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AEF water pump housing connecting bolts are in different location than 1,6. AEF has alternator, water pump and power steering pump with one serpentine belt, which I liked. Engine mount bolts are M10 instead of M8 that every other block has. The one in front of block, under timing belt. Timing belt is narrower than other diesel engines. Crank gear and belt are AEF only stuff. AAZ or TDI timing belt and TDI crank gear will fit.
I have AEF in my Audi quattro, several minor differences to other diesel engines.
That makes a lot of sense. The AEF block normally being canted forward and oil dipstick at the rear makes it very similar to the T4 van IDI engine layout (ABL TD and 1X NA).
The T4 van uses those larger M10 bolts for the chassis / engine mount on the timing belt end of the block as it's design means it sees more leverage and weight.
The narrower timing belt and pulley setup would be used as the Polo engine bay is very small and space would be limited. -
#9 by BoostedOne on 12 Feb, 2013 21:46
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Sorry I been on other sites and working alot and trying to sort out the differences...
I got an intermediate shaft pulley, vac pump, valve cover, and crank pulley from a guy parting out some 1.9s used in some kind of boat motor application.
I got a crank timing sprocket from a AHU, used a cam gear from one of my old 1.6s. Will use a 1.6 timing belt roller and a standard 1.9 timing belt.
For now I am leaving it non turbo, and using my freshly rebuilt 1.6 IDI pump and injectors on it. I may turbo it down the road, but Im not looking for power. I want milage, and if I have a turbo Im just going to use more fuel. Right now Im governed lol..
I have a bunch of crap on order.. This thing is kind of a pain in the ass.. That water pump deal really kicked my butt. I had to go to Houston for several days for work, and the day before I left I discovered that the water pump housings I had didn't fit. It took a lot of time on the internet to find that stupid AEF is the only thing that has that bolt pattern, and yeah, as you said it uses a "combination bracket" which is essentially a water pump housing, alternator mount, AC compressor mount and a PS pump mount all in one.. Something that does 2 of three things I dont want or need.
The issue with the water pump mount is 3 out of 4 line up fine.. 1 of the holes(bottom left) is totally different. After much consideration of my options, none of them seemed very great. I got home from houston this afternoon and looked at it, and said "eff it" and cut the bottom left boss off the block. Now a standard pump housing fits just fine, with the exception that its only held on by 3 bolts. I am hoping that considering the loading of the pump(I am going to use an ABF alternator setup), that the load is going to be relatively light, and Im thinking I might just fit a jackscrew on the backside of the pump to lightly load against the front of the block where that hole is... Getting one of those combo brackets here would be a royal pain, getting a replacement pump for it would be a pain down the road(I heard they suck), and my belt routing would likely have gotten creative too..
I now have a list half a mile long of parts to express ship to me from AutohausAZ.. Of the things I didn't consider was the "bypass hose".. the one that runs from the water pump to the head on the 1.6, will be too short.. So I put one on order for an AAZ... Which means adding an oil cooler.. So I added the other small hose to the order that comes out of the water pump to the cooler and the hard pipe.. Since this hose runs the hard pipe over top of the filter, I need a new hardpipe, but I think I can use an ABA hard pipe.. Or Im hoping, LOL..
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#10 by BoostedOne on 12 Feb, 2013 21:48
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AEF water pump housing connecting bolts are in different location than 1,6. AEF has alternator, water pump and power steering pump with one serpentine belt, which I liked. Engine mount bolts are M10 instead of M8 that every other block has. The one in front of block, under timing belt. Timing belt is narrower than other diesel engines. Crank gear and belt are AEF only stuff. AAZ or TDI timing belt and TDI crank gear will fit.
I have AEF in my Audi quattro, several minor differences to other diesel engines.
MJF, I want to take a second to thank you.. Your posts a few years ago on the Serpentine thread came up when I was scratching my head and googling the whole water pump issue.. your posts were the only info I found that made it clear I had a problem.
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#11 by 8v-of-fury on 14 Feb, 2013 22:19
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For now I am leaving it non turbo, and using my freshly rebuilt 1.6 IDI pump and injectors on it. I may turbo it down the road, but Im not looking for power. I want milage, and if I have a turbo Im just going to use more fuel.
On the contrary. A turbo will enhance efficiency, and therefore mileage will increase. -
#12 by BoostedOne on 15 Feb, 2013 21:28
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Ok, let me start out by saying I am not arguing, but simply asking..
How?
I DO understand that many mods to gain power DO help fuel economy. I see this on the cummins.. The higher hp nozzles have better spray patterns,the tunes are more efficient, etc.
I also understand that IF I was looking to get to 80-90hp, a turbo would likely be the way to go economy wise, because the mods to get to that power level NA would be so extreme the engine would likely perform like crap at anything but WOT....
However..
With an IDI, and holding the injectors as a constant, the only thing I see a turbo doing is adding some restrictions to the flow path when off boost, and providing more power(which translates to more fuel burned) when on boost. If Im tooling along at steady cruise at say 40mph at 35hp, how is a turbo going to help that? The problem I see is I have a certain acceleration rate at the moment, which is pretty much goverened by the ability of the NA.. I can only burn so much fuel because I can only move so much air.. GOing turbo and turning up the pump seems like I'd just use more fuel, if for no other reason because I will be using power I didnt have before.
Am I missing something?
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#13 by 8v-of-fury on 15 Feb, 2013 21:45
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Why do you have to turn up the pump to run a turbo?Quote
I DO understand that many mods to gain power DO help fuel economy.
Not to gain power, to gain efficiency. With more efficiency comes more power and more economy. Without changing the engines displacement or fuel needed for a given RPM, making that fuel burn more efficiently (boost) will in turn give you more power and more economy.
Think 1.6D and 1.6TD. Worlds apart on power, but I have personally gotten better economy from the 1.6 TD. (Yes it was conclusive. .same car, same trans.. so all the same bearings and dragging brakes
)
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#14 by TylerDurden on 16 Feb, 2013 06:28
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With more efficiency comes more power and more economy. Without changing the engines displacement or fuel needed for a given RPM, making that fuel burn more efficiently (boost) will in turn give you more power and more economy.
Agree.
Looking at the ECO as an example: just adding the little turbo gained 12% more HP and 12% torque (while reducing particulate), without significantly reducing fuel economy. The turbo size ensured that it was on-boost in the most frequently used range of rpm.
The principle, AIUI*, is that more power in a NA comes at the expense of overfueling losses - but adding boost eliminates the overfueling losses by increasing the air density. It's like free power. Adding an intercooler increases that bonus by increasing (or maintaining) that air-charge density.
*(AIUI - As I Understand It... please correct me if I'm wrong.)