Exhaust manifold / header recommendation for 1.5L / AAZ Franken setup.

[Jetmugg]

The machine work is done for a 1.5L / 1.6TD Block / AAZ head engine I'm working on for a land speed racing application.  It's time to work out a wise choice for an exhaust manifold or tubular header...

Some additional context might be helpful.  This is for a 1.5L / AAZ headed turbodiesel setup.  I already have a 1.6L non-turbo exhaust manifold sitting on the shelf, but to my eye, it looks like it wouldn't flow especially well.

Talking to my local turbo shop about this project, he recommended finding the best flowing exhaust manifold that would work with this head.  The turbo flange is not critical, but if a good flowing turbo manifold is available, that might help simplify matters (it also might not).  If I can come up with a good flowing exhaust manifold or shorty style tubular header, I can adapt the turbo flange from there.

The engine is going in a Dodge Rampage, and will be used for a Land Speed Racing attempt.  I am free to modify the firewall for turbo and exhaust clearance.  The turbo does not have to reside in a "stock" location like on a factory TD setup for a Golf/Jetta/etc. I will most likely have to weld a steel "box" onto the firewall, which will extend into the passenger's compartment to allow for additional space for the turbo and exhaust system.

I hope this explanation helps.  I'm looking for practical recommendations for an exhaust setup for this engine combination.  As far as a down-pipe after the turbo, I am free to run a pipe as long or as short as I wish.  I just can't go out through the hood.  Out through the fender, or the wheelwell, or dumping out the side under the vehicle is OK. 

Constructive advice is appreciated.

Thank You,

Steve

[justiz00]

I found these awhile back. One is an equal length "top mount" that is also divided with external wastegate flange. I do not know if it would fit an MK1 as it is for a longitudal crossflow heads (or so it says). But that is not what you are putting it into.

http://www.designengineering.com/category/catalog/spa-turbo-usa/turbo-manifolds/volkswagen/divided-top-mount-equal-length-vw-8v

This is divided also but not equal length runners and almost 1/2 to 2/3's the price. It is angled. For your application I can see where divided would help spool if clearance is not into consideration.

http://www.designengineering.com/category/catalog/spa-turbo-usa/turbo-manifolds/volkswagen/divided-top-mount-vw-16-18-20-8v

Divided bottom mount

http://www.designengineering.com/category/catalog/spa-turbo-usa/turbo-manifolds/volkswagen/divided-vw-16-18-20-8v

Good luck with the search.

[RabbitJockey]

supposedly the best flowing 8v exhaust manifold is the mk4 2.0 dual outlet tubular manifold  u could make your own turbo adapter and run it low mount or high mount depending on how you flip it.  here is one hillfolk did with one of the older cast units, but u could even use 2 flanges and some pipe to change placement when bringing the 2 pipes together.

[mystery3]

Is the motor going to be mounted transversely or longitudinally? How big is the engine compartment on a rampage? Similar to mkI?

[theman53]

I commented in your WTB thread. From what I have heard the later TDI exhaust mani are the best for flow and spool. The ones with the non VNT in Europe I believe. TurboJ had a post on it and that is what AKI was making 350HP with on a daily driver ...again IIRC.

[Jetmugg]

The engine will be mounted transversely.  The engine compartment is similar to a MKI, but perhaps a bit larger.  What makes this swap fairly do-able, is the fact that the L-Body cars and trucks from Dodge (Omni, Horizon, 024, Turismo, Charger, Rampage, Scamp) were originally equipped with VW 1.7L gas engines and either 4 speeed manual, or automatic transmissions in the early years (1979-1981 or something like that).   That makes it pretty straightforward to make VW drivetrain swaps retro-actively.

I hadn't heard about the later TDI exhaust mani's either.  That may be worth a loook.

For anyone interested, here is the "build thread" on my project...


http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,10625.0.html


 

[R.O.R-2.0]

i have a tubular Streettoys2000 turbo header..

there is NO STOCK MANIFOLD that would out-perform it..

its a ram-horn style manifold..

cost me a pretty penny tho..

[CRSMP5]

i pwersonally think he doing it wrong... pick turbo.. then decide on manifold...

too big a turbo = low boost...

too small a turbo will smother it..

since he can mod firewall... build header for turbo choice... equal length so on.. you will gain some hp in some way im sure..

whats the record for something tube frame with fiber body?? id loan you the bathtub project for something like this... saw you said truck is 104..



that, cage, right suspention... couple gal fuel... no electrial system required.. (pull plunger)... light weight brakes, wheels/tires... 1500-1800#s max easy..

[mystery3]

i pwersonally think he doing it wrong... pick turbo.. then decide on manifold...

too big a turbo = low boost...

too small a turbo will smother it..

since he can mod firewall... build header for turbo choice... equal length so on.. you will gain some hp in some way im sure..

whats the record for something tube frame with fiber body?? id loan you the bathtub project for something like this... saw you said truck is 104..

that, cage, right suspention... couple gal fuel... no electrial system required.. (pull plunger)... light weight brakes, wheels/tires... 1500-1800#s max easy..

Weight is almost inconsequential in land speed racing and can actually be helpful for traction from what I understand.

And as far as custom tube framed fiberglass bodied car records I think it's 1200kph/760mph and change. The classifications get rather arcane though. His class IIRC is diesel p/u up to 1.5L displacement.  

[CRSMP5]

was not a weight thing.. its more aero.. look at its height.. drop it couple in.. flat plate on bottom, engine is higher then mk1 due to how frame is designed.. stream line a driver, would be interested in what a 1.5d record would be.. have to think they have it classed by displacement..

hell for how easy vw/this is for mounts... do chassis swap in under 2 hr...

now who would invest in a tube/glass 1.5d.. i would not... but hell this already designed.. has vw engine/tranny... bet when it was 20+ years ago who would diesel one except sickos like us... but speed record.. diesel tech advancement... its a jewl that no one knew of.. ready to blow a mind..

[Jetmugg]

Let's pretend for a moment that the tube frame car & body setup in that photo would qualify as a "Modified Sports" car.  The rules are pretty specific, but let's assume that it could be modified to meet the rules for the class.

Generally, for LSR racing, the vehicle is built to fit into a specific class within the rulebook.

The current record in BGMS - G engine (blown gas modified sports) 2.0 liter engine displacement limit is 232 mph. 

No offense intended, but I wouldn't want to be in that bathtub if it was going 232 and some change.

Steve.

The Street Toys 2000 ram's horn style exhaust certainly looks like the smoothest flowing option I've seen, but they do carry a pricetag that's a bit out of my range.

[Jetmugg]

There are no diesel specific car classes within SCTA at this time, so diesel cars have to run against gasoline or "fuel" records. 

There are diesel classes for trucks and streamliners.  The current 1.5L diesel streamliner record is 123 mph, held by the same guy who currently holds the 1.5L diesel truck record.  I don't know if he used the same engine for both records, but it's entirely possible.

Steve.

[Jetmugg]

Here's a pic of the record holding 1.5L diesel streamliner.  It's hard to tell much detail from this photo, but you can tell that it's a purpose built machine.  I think I see tubing coming from an intercooler to the intake, and a fairly short (less than a foot) exhaust pipe.



Steve

[CRSMP5]

stupid silly thought.. i mean really.. it is.. so no hate...

vnt turbo... cable to operate the vnt...

now overall goal... max speed.. 3 miles... gotta make 2 runs...

problem with big turbo... how will it boost and run at this speed... not enough gone... lag between gears.. 3 miles...

problem with small turbo.. runs out of range and smothers engine..
                  ive had my tdi-m in box past record you seek via gps.. was not foot to floor either.. 21psi.. 5th gear 02a

now onto idea...

say when your foot to floor seeking that mph or so.. if a vnt was cable operated, could it not be used as a "throttle" to increase/decrease boost into more usable power?

i get ideas.. dont ask.. but please discuss..

[Jetmugg]

I like the concept, but have no knowledge about implementation of a cable operated VNT system.

I'm completely open to suggestions and new/different ideas.  What I'm working on isn't exactly a run of the mill type application.

I agree with you about the limitations of a turbo that is too big or too small, and that it's going to be a balancing act between boost levels and the power between shifts.  Initial lag off the line isn't much of a concern, but recovery between shifts certainly is.

I am also aware that there are plenty of street driven VW diesels that are capable of going faster than the current record.  Everybody who has set a record at Bonneville says that it's not as easy as it looks, and I believe that sentiment 100%.  The 2 guys I know of who are either the former or current recordholders in this class are big names in LSR racing, holding records in many different classes.  I have to believe that if either of them was capable of running a 1.5L diesel pickup to 125 or 130 mph, they would have done it.

I know I'm going to need a lot of things to go in my favor in order to be competitive against the record.  Some kind of manually adjustable VNT just might provide some of the needed tune-ability.

Steve.