AAZ pump question

[pac11]

I have a '97 Jetta with an AAZ 325,000km.  The last couple of days when cold it's hard to start and it pings a lot till it gets warm and smokes more than normal (lots on start up after a hard start). Glow plugs are good and I was thinking it was injectors but today after a cold start once it fired up it revved up to 2000 by it's self and then back down again then it ran normally. Next cold start today it started up after a long smokey crank and I had a max of 2000 rpms. We were on out way out to dinner about 20 min away and even after it got warm I only got 2000 out of it the whole time (clutch in still only 2000).
 So we come out to leave for home and it starts up after a long crank and goes to 2000 rpm then drops right off and dies to never start again. I tried tapping the side of the pump while cranking in hopes that the governor or whatever is screwed up would skip back into place, nope.
I have another pump here that's still in a '94 and I think it's the same but I really don't want to do the job in this parking lot. And I wanted to rebuild it before sticking it in since it has 300,000 on it.

Can anyone offer any insight into what's wrong and is there any way I can get it going again enough to get it home? Would getting the top off the pump get me in far enough to swap out parts from the other good used one?

Also I have a pump off of a '89 1.6 non turbo available to me. Would it bolt up and work? correct pulley protrusion? Would not having an aneroid to go to the boost line cause an issue?

I don't have the special dial indicator adapter but I do have a dynamic timing tool ... the pulse adapter that clamps onto the inj line and you use your regular gas timing light with it.  But I don't know what the deg should be for an aaz using that method.

Thanks all
Mike

[8v-of-fury]

Seems you may have a broken throttle arm internally. The no start all of the sudden after weird throttle issues.. I've had similar.

Doing a pump in a parking lot isn't too bad.. but you could always try and gt it going again to baby it home.

[pac11]

Yeah it's not too bad, I'm just home again to get some more parts.  The bracket that holds the pump needs to be swapped too since the nose of the pump is a different diameter (thankfully the same protrusion). Also the pump bolts up solidly in the '97 and the timing is adjusted via a slotted pulley, in the '94 the pump has the slots with a solid pulley... the way I expected the '97 to be.  I'm wondering now if the '94 isn't an AAZ?  I see that it says 1.9 on the sticker and it's a turbo?  I don't care much at this point I just need it to run.

 No one knows about what the timing should be with the clamp on the injector line pulse method?

Mike

[8v-of-fury]

same engine. they switched pumps styles.

i think i have seen 12BTDC?

[TylerDurden]

No one knows about what the timing should be with the clamp on the injector line pulse method?

Andrew Uses a timing light. He has mentioned setting start of injection ~12^o BTDC, but IIRC, it depends on injector break pressures.

[8v-of-fury]

it depends on injector break pressures.

injector wear, pump wear.. compression..

Numbers are useless unless everything is brand new set it to where it runs perfectly

[pac11]

It's back home now, I need to bring it to work and time it tomorrow. I'll use 12deg and see how that sounds.  I've always felt that the pulse method takes into account the wear in everything because it's "feeling" the pressure spike in the line and that spike only happens at actual injection. The dial method and flow timing in other diesels is only actual when things are new.
 The problem with the pulse method is the lack of data.

 What is the best place to get a seal kit and hard parts from? Does anyone still use hansautoparts (prothe)? Where is a better quality source?   The pump I just put in has 300,000 on it so I want to rebuild my '97 pump and change it out.

I have someone in the USA to mule me back parts for free

[8v-of-fury]

I have used prothes seal kits with no issue, every seal was exact to the Bosch kits I also have on hand.

[fatmobile]

Sooo no one suspects the fuel supply when it revs up and dies on start?
 Do you have clear fuel lines?

 A broken throttle arm would give you no response at all right?
Not like you could drive to dinner with one.

[8v-of-fury]

'ay. But a breaking one could give some issue. Probably not the issue. I would not suspect the fuel supply if it revs up to 2000 rpm by itself , as that is clearly a fueling problem. I would suspect it for the maximum of 2000 rpm, was it smokey at this point in time as well?

Mike, have you got it running on the new pump at all?

[pac11]

Yes it's running on the new pump just fine, as I was saying in my last post I'm going to bring it into work today and time it better. 

The reason I knew it was a problem in the pump is that it would only go to 2000 rpm with the clutch in or out. If it was a fuel supply issue it would have had an almost normal no load (clutch in) RPM but reduced RPM under load. This was like the governor was set to 2000.

Once I find a supplier of hard parts I'll take some pictures of the damage.

Mike

[libbydiesel]

it depends on injector break pressures.

injector wear, pump wear.. compression..

Numbers are useless unless everything is brand new set it to where it runs perfectly

12° BTDC using a pulse adapter is correct EVERY TIME (for my pulse adapter) because it is sensing the start of injection and so intrinsically compensates for injector break pressure, pump wear, compression - up to the point that it is too low to ignite the fuel...  It is easily the fastest, easiest and most accurate way to set the timing.  Definitely better than timing by ear.

[8v-of-fury]

Touche' and thank-you for popping in a giving that info.

[R.O.R-2.0]

It's back home now, I need to bring it to work and time it tomorrow. I'll use 12deg and see how that sounds.  I've always felt that the pulse method takes into account the wear in everything because it's "feeling" the pressure spike in the line and that spike only happens at actual injection. The dial method and flow timing in other diesels is only actual when things are new.
 The problem with the pulse method is the lack of data.

 What is the best place to get a seal kit and hard parts from? Does anyone still use hansautoparts (prothe)? Where is a better quality source?   The pump I just put in has 300,000 on it so I want to rebuild my '97 pump and change it out.

I have someone in the USA to mule me back parts for free

Prothe? hell no.. he doesnt sell anything worth using on a VW..

just because a pump has 300k km (186K miles) means nothing.. honestly, i would be willing to bet that its still more than useable, as long as its not leaking..