Author Topic: Control collar question  (Read 4080 times)

January 05, 2013, 07:10:57 pm

EcoTX

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Control collar question
« on: January 05, 2013, 07:10:57 pm »
Hello,

I've searched and can't seem to find this specific information.

My question is regarding the control collar / spill port area of the Bosch VE pump.

Should it be sliding and falling under it's own weight, or is it machined to provide a certain level of friction on this shaft?
Seems to be the latter in my case, but I can't remember from my last pump rebuild, and don't want to tear into another one.

Already trashed two distributor head O-rings taking it off and on dealing with this sticky / stuck control collar. 
Have to wait till Monday now to go get a few of those from the diesel shop to put it together.

Reply #1January 05, 2013, 08:03:17 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: Control collar question
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2013, 08:03:17 pm »
They should slide easily, however they are a perfect machined fit, so they should not be sloppy. It should not provide any resistance on the plunger.

If you are tearing head o-rings, you need to clean up that edge of the pump before you put it back together next time. I have taken a head a off a pump nearly 10-12 times with the same o-ring.

Reply #2January 05, 2013, 09:04:29 pm

EcoTX

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Re: Control collar question
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2013, 09:04:29 pm »
They should slide easily, however they are a perfect machined fit, so they should not be sloppy. It should not provide any resistance on the plunger.

If you are tearing head o-rings, you need to clean up that edge of the pump before you put it back together next time. I have taken a head a off a pump nearly 10-12 times with the same o-ring.

Thank you very much for the response.

Perhaps I should explain my scenario in more detail.  I am figuring it out more as time goes along what has happened...

The internals have been sitting in stagnant diesel fuel for well over a year.  They are still perfectly good parts, but most are covered with thick, sticky, dark sludge from the diesel.  I don't know what it is.
So I have been soaking and cleaning every piece with a toothbrush using lacquer thinner and then setting back into fresh diesel.

Upon re-assembly everything went perfect except getting the distributor head back on and the control collar / control lever was really binding up big time.
The control collar's (what seems like) .00001 fit had gotten gum'd up pretty bad I guess.  I was turning over the pump, and the control collar was moving with the plunger, moving all the throttle arms,etc...
I knew this wasn't right HA!  Anyways, I did this two times thinking I had gotten it freed up the second time, but it wasn't enough still.

I had to use a lot of force on the plunger plate to push the collar off and clean everything, it was stubborn to get back on because it is machined so perfect like you said.
Now it is actually moving on the shaft with consistent force up and down, but still feels excessive.

I think the O-rings got messed up because since the control collar was stuck, the spot on the back where those top 2 springs in the distributor head tighten against was basically not moving.
So tightening torque for the top part just kept increasing the more I tightened the head down.  Thus removing/installing was not possible to do uniformly due to the forces involved leading to skewed and torn new o-rings.  I had to gently pry the head off both times with a screwdriver all the way around to get it to pop off.  I had all the bolts out of the head, and you could see the top part pushed out more of an angle than the bottom.  That is my theory at least.  Does it sound plausible?

I'm also really surprised that little ball joint didn't break how much I must have tightened it down the first time.  I think it might have helped loosen it up too actually.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 09:14:27 pm by EcoTX »

Reply #3January 05, 2013, 09:26:43 pm

TylerDurden

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Re: Control collar question
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2013, 09:26:43 pm »
"Sludge" does not sound like it's common diesel. I have fired up diesels sitting for >2yrs with no apparent deterioration of the fuel or lines.


Reply #4January 05, 2013, 09:39:01 pm

EcoTX

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Re: Control collar question
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2013, 09:39:01 pm »
"Sludge" does not sound like it's common diesel. I have fired up diesels sitting for >2yrs with no apparent deterioration of the fuel or lines.



Going to get pics of before and after... something has definitely settled out of this fuel sitting stagnant in a garage.
Stuff literally falls right off with some solvent, and really did wonders to the control collar and vane pump.  
This junk really worked it's way in those tight tolerances and really made things stuck good.

Ok here's a shot I found of the fresh diesel from the store when I took it apart.


This is what everything was sitting in and coated with...




Very nasty stuff let me tell you... I really don't know what to call it besides sludge.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 09:55:31 pm by EcoTX »

Reply #5January 06, 2013, 07:01:42 am

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: Control collar question
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2013, 07:01:42 am »
looks like polymerized veg oil. is it real sticky to the touch? Berrymans carburetor cleaner will work wonders on gunked up veg.

Reply #6January 06, 2013, 08:00:43 am

TylerDurden

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Re: Control collar question
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2013, 08:00:43 am »
Looks to me like waste motor oil or some jungle-juice mixture of who-knows-what. But if it cleans up, give it a shot.

Reply #7January 06, 2013, 08:26:52 am

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: Control collar question
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2013, 08:26:52 am »
Your pics shows that diesel is not doing anything to dissolve the gunk. Does it have the consistency of thick honey? If it does and is sticky like glue, it is gunked up veg.

Reply #8January 06, 2013, 09:00:13 am

EcoTX

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Re: Control collar question
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2013, 09:00:13 am »
looks like polymerized veg oil. is it real sticky to the touch? Berrymans carburetor cleaner will work wonders on gunked up veg.

Looks to me like waste motor oil or some jungle-juice mixture of who-knows-what. But if it cleans up, give it a shot.

Your pics shows that diesel is not doing anything to dissolve the gunk. Does it have the consistency of thick honey? If it does and is sticky like glue, it is gunked up veg.

This gunk wasn't meant to be the topic of discussion really, but it is interesting wondering where it came from.

Vegetable oil I can't really go for, the internals to this pump never saw veg oil and were spotless on going in the fuel over a year ago, and I damn sure didn't pour any in there.

Maybe it is the additives package and/or the 5% biodiesel has fallen out of suspension?  I don't even think that is possible but I have no clue.
People are always weary of pumping diesel out of really low tanks, I think I see why now...

Anyway, I'm hoping I can get it together tomorrow when I get some new O-rings.  I'm going to put it together again later without an O-ring to see if the control collar is still too tight and report back.  I've cleaned it up the best I can, so if it is still binding I'm stumped.


Reply #9January 06, 2013, 10:07:27 am

92EcoDiesel Jetta

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Re: Control collar question
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2013, 10:07:27 am »
Biodiesel is made from veg oil and should not be allowed to sit in the IP or injectors for long. Bio will degrade over time and cause the same issues as old veg.

Reply #10January 06, 2013, 08:36:39 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Control collar question
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2013, 08:36:39 pm »
I think it's blood.