Glow plugs & grid heater

[rodpaslow]

Anyone have both?  I have added a cummins heater to mine and just wondering if you use both to start when cold (talking winter temps in Can below 0 or 32°F)?

I was thinking using glow plugs after cycling the heater once and then on while cranking?

Just Curious for those of you that have a grid heater..

[bajacalal]

LOL, I actually disabled the grid heater on my Cummins.

I'm kind of wondering how you fit that in your VW engine though, it seems like a square peg in a round hole to me.

I would have used intake air heaters from a powerstroke. They look like gasser spark plugs with a heating coil at the end, so it's just a matter of drilling and tapping the holes. And they're easy to find.

[rodpaslow]

It's pretty easy actually, i removed the elbow on top of the intake, had some 3/4" aluminum plates cut with the intake opening, threaded & drilled the bottom one to bolt to the intake and another 3/4" plate (both aluminum) to bolt the heater down and connected the elbow back on top of the top plate.  It fits beautifully  -

[R.O.R-2.0]

congrats, you added an intake restriction!

well, i guess that might not be a huge restriction, but it doesnt help flow, thats for sure..

why did you add it? was your car hard to start?

[rodpaslow]

Yes, it's a relatively new engine (probably less than 7000 mi), at minus 5°C (about 29°F) it had a real hard time starting.  I'm going to double check all glow plugs were working, I might have one I need to change, as it was turning over fast enough and firing it just didn't want to take off after about 30 sec of cranking.  It was continually firing, just not enough cylinders at the right time.  I think I need to review starting procedures as I know your supposed to step on the pedal a bit, but I think I was giving to much.

I wanted to add the grid heater or something like it to help when its below -10 or so.  If this doesn't help, I might look at a diesel burning coolant heater, but I know they are moocho-denairo $$!  This is for when I can't plug in the block heater.

[R.O.R-2.0]

Yes, it's a relatively new engine (probably less than 7000 mi), at minus 5°C (about 29°F) it had a real hard time starting.  I'm going to double check all glow plugs were working, I might have one I need to change, as it was turning over fast enough and firing it just didn't want to take off after about 30 sec of cranking.  It was continually firing, just not enough cylinders at the right time.  I think I need to review starting procedures as I know your supposed to step on the pedal a bit, but I think I was giving to much.

I wanted to add the grid heater or something like it to help when its below -10 or so.  If this doesn't help, I might look at a diesel burning coolant heater, but I know they are moocho-denairo $$!  This is for when I can't plug in the block heater.

new engines dont like to start good until the rings are good and seated..

has this engine been revved into its upper RPM range since you re-built it?

and you cant step on the throttle too much.. the governor controls the throttle 100% of the time..

have you checked your timing? it sounds to me like your timing is retarded. my car used to start just like that with severely retarded injection timing..

[8v-of-fury]

It is a heating grid from a 5.9L Cummins engine?? No restriction on the 6 cyl.. How is it now a restriction on the 1.6L engine then?

K3vo, you need to venture to Saskatchewan.. or slightly east of there if you ever want to understand what "really $%^%$& cold" is.. They have a completely different type of winter there all together, it is unlike anywhere else in the world.. except maybe the Arctic Circle.

How much does the grid heater draw? Does it drain the battery down so that maybe it is to weak to effectively spin your engine over? Or have you upgraded the battery to Cummins equipment as well? I currently have a 1150CCA Ford F350 battery spinning my engine over.. Never ever ever have an issue with starter speed.

[R.O.R-2.0]

It is a heating grid from a 5.9L Cummins engine?? No restriction on the 6 cyl.. How is it now a restriction on the 1.6L engine then?

K3vo, you need to venture to Saskatchewan.. or slightly east of there if you ever want to understand what "really $%^%$& cold" is.. They have a completely different type of winter there all together, it is unlike anywhere else in the world.. except maybe the Arctic Circle.

How much does the grid heater draw? Does it drain the battery down so that maybe it is to weak to effectively spin your engine over? Or have you upgraded the battery to Cummins equipment as well? I currently have a 1150CCA Ford F350 battery spinning my engine over.. Never ever ever have an issue with starter speed.

if its not a restriction to the 5.9, then why do 100 different companies make a delete kit for it that claims to give you lower EGTs and quicker spool up? but like i said, being that there is a stock manifold inlet elbow above it, restrictions dont really matter, because the whole intake manifold and inlet elbow are the most restrictive parts in the whole system.. that heater grid couldnt have HELPED flow tho, thats for sure..

shouldnt need more than a stock size battery to start a healthy VW either..

my car will start with one battery.. even with the glow plugs not working..

is it cold enough up there that a diesel wont start easy even after being plugged in, and glowing the plugs?

[8v-of-fury]

Saskatchewan has a pretty consistent winter temperature of Colder than Hell. Regina and Winnipeg (commonly called Winterpeg) are two cities where idling of vehicles is of the utmost necessity to have them be able to stay running. Meaning.. if you shut it down you probably won't get it going again lol. Typical Saskatchewan winters are -30c or colder.. Gas cars have issues starting in this weather man! lol

Well ok if it IS a restriction on a 5.9, it is more than likely not one on a 1.6. Also what kind of power are you expecting to make out of a stock 1.6 intake manifold? haha.

It may be a healthy VW, but it now has a power hungry grid heater on top of it. Does he use the glows as well to start it?

[R.O.R-2.0]

Saskatchewan has a pretty consistent winter temperature of Colder than Hell. Regina and Winnipeg (commonly called Winterpeg) are two cities where idling of vehicles is of the utmost necessity to have them be able to stay running. Meaning.. if you shut it down you probably won't get it going again lol. Typical Saskatchewan winters are -30c or colder.. Gas cars have issues starting in this weather man! lol

Well ok if it IS a restriction on a 5.9, it is more than likely not one on a 1.6. Also what kind of power are you expecting to make out of a stock 1.6 intake manifold? haha.

It may be a healthy VW, but it now has a power hungry grid heater on top of it. Does he use the glows as well to start it?

god, i would hope soo..

and ive never seen batteries much bigger than 1000CCA that fit in the stock VW location without mods..

if he adds too much draw to the system, hes gonna need another battery.. maybe another alt..

[8v-of-fury]

1987 Ford F350 batteries fit with out the use of the stock hold down . Get a 120A TDI alternator and you are all set for grid heater, glow plugs, coolant glows, and 3 batteries if you please lol

[bajacalal]

The Cummins grid heater draws over 100 amps.

And it is restrictive. But they are the only "starting aid" those engines were equipped with. TDIs somewhat unique in being direct-injected and having glow plugs.

And they're fairly unnecessary on a Cummins in all but the most frigid climates, though I do plan to hook mine back up.

I can see the purpose of having one on one of the harder to start, older diesels, if you live somewhere really cold.

[pointynoggin]

Check your timing man, mines a touch retarded and she smoked this morning  but caught the first rev, then I scraped the frost off the windshield.  Can't complain, had a good run of sunshine this year.

[rodpaslow]

I set the timing not long ago, with the proper dial gauge.  It's not set at 1mm like the book says.  I have a Giles pump and I set it at a wee bit closer to book (bentley manual) suggested timing.  I have it set at .98 I now it's right between what Giles suggests and Bently manual.  I don't think it's a timing issue because any temp above freezing it starts immediately.  I would agree with such little mileage on this engine things may not be 100% as far as rings, etc.

I have a 1000 cc amp battery in it.  I have just hooked up the grid heater yesterday and it has not been cold enough the last day or two, to give it a try. I checked all glow plugs and all are good - with the test light check anyway.  I suspect they are fine, as I say the car was firing, so I don't think I need to do an amp check on them.

I don't drive this car to beat hell, I find no difference in power with this in place.  I even suspect that is may take some of the turbulence out of the air going into the engine because of the turbulence created by that crappy elbow. (I know, it's probably not true, but I like to think it might)

[libbydiesel]

I've started my IDI engines down to -20°C without block heater and they will fire right up even here in Flagstaff where the altitude results in a 20% reduction in compression.  They run a bit rough for a little bit and two glow cycles instead of one can help, but certainly no issue starting at that temp.  It has been very rare that I have done so, tho.  At those temps I fairly religiously plug in the block heater because the temperature shock of starting an engine that cold is terrible for it.  I suppose if you need to start a cold engine at -30°C the grid heater might help.  I'd rather move, tho.