Ceramic coated piston tops...done at home??! - General - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
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Ceramic coated piston tops...done at home??! by GTiTDi on 05 Oct, 2012 17:51
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Was researching some Ceramic paint for the hot side of my turbo and found this stuff....http://pitstopusa.com/i-5055021-vht-flame-proof-coating-clear-11-oz-aerosol-can.html?gclid=CJXA3smU67ICFYuY4AodCgoA0w
The intriguing part is they say it works on piston domes....I thought OMG I can coat my own pistons for WAY less than sending to Swain!?
Thoughts?
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#1 by Syncroincity on 06 Oct, 2012 01:19
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Take the $8 and buy a beer instead. At least you'll see some result.
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#2 by Blocksmith on 06 Oct, 2012 06:41
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Yeah, not nearly the same thing as true ceramic coating. I have a couple cans of that stuff, but it's going on exhaust manifolds and turbos ONLY. I forget where, but I did come across at least one place a while back that would sell you the REAL stuff, just the ceramic powder, and you could airbrush and bake it on yourself and save a good bit of dough, depending on if you already had an airbrush, media blaster, and were willing to chance it. I think I may try the DIY thing at some point, but only on an experimental motor, one I don't really expect to live long anyway. I figure if the motor needs to last, I'm going to send it in, let the pros do it and just think of it as $200 worth of peace of mind.
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#3 by GTiTDi on 06 Oct, 2012 07:06
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I think I may try the DIY thing at some point, but only on an experimental motor, one I don't really expect to live long anyway. I figure if the motor needs to last, I'm going to send it in, let the pros do it and just think of it as $200 worth of peace of mind.
I agree with you here. I am thinking of trying this stuff on an N/A rabbit diesel and stick a turbo on it, crank up the fuel and watch the EGT's skyrocket, beat the piss out of it, and pull the head and see how the "coating" held up... -
#4 by R.O.R-2.0 on 06 Oct, 2012 11:05
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I think I may try the DIY thing at some point, but only on an experimental motor, one I don't really expect to live long anyway. I figure if the motor needs to last, I'm going to send it in, let the pros do it and just think of it as $200 worth of peace of mind.
I agree with you here. I am thinking of trying this stuff on an N/A rabbit diesel and stick a turbo on it, crank up the fuel and watch the EGT's skyrocket, beat the piss out of it, and pull the head and see how the "coating" held up...
i doubt a coating sprayed out of a can will hold up..
i think its for the outside of parts, not the insides.. -
#5 by theman53 on 06 Oct, 2012 12:06
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Who knows. I wouldn't trust it until I saw it proven on someone else's stuff. I painted a header on my quad on time with something like this. It wouldn't take normal high temp paint, I had to bake it in an oven, but the ceramic held up for many years. Might be worth a shot, but from my experience the EGT will be too high for it to handle. 1,500F comes so fast.
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#6 by Dakotakid on 06 Oct, 2012 21:49
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Time for a new avatar thingee....I HATE that kid!
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#7 by Blocksmith on 07 Oct, 2012 08:46
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I agree with you here. I am thinking of trying this stuff on an N/A rabbit diesel and stick a turbo on it, crank up the fuel and watch the EGT's skyrocket, beat the piss out of it, and pull the head and see how the "coating" held up...
If you've got the curiosity and the time, go for it; I'm rather curious myself, just not entirely optimistic enough to devote the time to actually try it. But then again, who knows? On a 'normally' driven DD, it might actually hold up okay, since it's rated for 600F continuous and 1200F spikes, which matches about perfectly with what I would expect for a putt-around-town rig's EGTs. -
#8 by GTiTDi on 07 Oct, 2012 11:21
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no that is only one kind there is another they say holds up to 2,000* F
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#9 by R.O.R-2.0 on 07 Oct, 2012 11:45
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no that is only one kind there is another they say holds up to 2,000* F
i know that VHTs header paint (good to 2000*f) works damn good..
i painted the header on my GTI with it, and it still looks just like the day i painted it..
nothing flaking off, no rust, nothing.. just black ceramic goodness..
i wish we had time to experiment!! -
#10 by Blocksmith on 08 Oct, 2012 15:27
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no that is only one kind there is another they say holds up to 2,000* F
You're right, my bad, I was remembering the labels wrong. Kinda stupid too, since a can of the stuff was literally 7 feet away
Hmmm, I just may have to try some myself then when I assemble these two motors I'm rebuilding. Not that I'm gonna tear them down in 5k just to see how it's doing, but it couldn't hurt anything, right? -
#11 by GTiTDi on 08 Oct, 2012 20:23
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the end word on this thread of bullscheisse
original comment thread post
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3958302&postcount=9
GTiTDi:
I would NOT recommend putting any VHT paint on ANY internal component of your engine. Their products as well as many other DIY type products have limited success on even the simplest exhaust system. More importantly, “Got Bearings” is correct in pointing out those internal engine coatings, in this case ones that would be used on pistons, valves or combustion chambers are “Ceramic Thermal Barriers”. They have the ability to both endure the intense heat and the ability to “reflect it”. In a “Perfect” combustion chamber / cylinder you’re trying to isolate as much heat / energy as possible while. To do this you want to eliminate or severely reduce any heat being absorbed into the piston, valves or heads that could damage them. The more heat / energy that you can hold in that cylinder equates to more HP to your wheels. In doing so via, turbos, superchargers, high compression, NOS, etc, these increased temps often exceed the normal mechanical properties of the part it fails. Therefore, insulating the piston and chamber allows you to run hotter without hurting either.
OEM manufacturers are doing this as we speak. They recognize that any vehicle with aluminum heads / blocks is losing upwards of 30% thermal efficiency. They are working on ways to do coat these components in a production capacity like racers have done for many years. They are also working on similar coatings for injector tips as well……
Take a peek at anything NASA puts up into space. You’ll notice a tremendous amount of both gold and chrome like reflective surfaces. They do this for the same reason but their temps are exponentially more extreme.
VHT has neither the reflectivity properties nor the ability to withstand the cylinder pressures or temperatures. I find it unlikely and border line criminal that VHT would even make those claims. I suspect the vender did a little embellishing in the description.