Blown Head Gasket - Eh?

[Gizmoman]

In case you weren't aware, it also looks like you have a 1.6 injection pump and pump mounts.  Also, your supply and drain on your turbo are not clocked very well.  I'm aware of what it takes to clock a k14 in a vanagon and you can't get it very close with the metal tube off the drain like that. 

By "clocked" I assume you mean the tube should point straight down? If so, you are correct - that could be tough.

[Gizmoman]

I had a similiar incident on my 1.6td months ago.  Couldn't detect a hint of carnage on the head, not even cracks between the valves after the overheat.  I actually limped it back home 20 miles.  It wanted to overheat quickly on a hill and we babied it.  Every mile had to put more water in because it was spitting it out.  Was yours?

Everything seems cool with mine at home but I am no pro and will actually be taking it in to a machine shop next week to get word.

Also when I took mine apart there didn't seem to be a hint of cross contamination of oil/coolant but I could see the crusty buildip of coolant on 2 cylinders.

So I think were in the same boat and need our heads gone over.


Edit, also for gages because of this incident I am rebuilding both motors in my 2 cars I want to keep and in addition to the factory gages I'm going to install a few of the gages at the link below for egt/boost, oil pressure and coolant temp hooked up to aux airplane alarm buzzer.  These are much easier to look at and read and you can set the threshold for the alarm to go off.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110680292352?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Damac - We're defiantly on the same page. As turbograsel has pointed out, the pre-cup can let combustion gasses into the water - I'm waiting for his response but I have a loose pre-cup on #3 and also noticed a few bits of black floaties in my reservoir. There was also a thin film of krap at the top of cylinder #3. Were getting closer to finding the issue I believe.

[libbydiesel]

In case you weren't aware, it also looks like you have a 1.6 injection pump and pump mounts.  Also, your supply and drain on your turbo are not clocked very well.  I'm aware of what it takes to clock a k14 in a vanagon and you can't get it very close with the metal tube off the drain like that. 

By "clocked" I assume you mean the tube should point straight down? If so, you are correct - that could be tough.

Yes, that's what I mean.  I've done it for several vanagon installations.  The easiest way I've found is to pull the turbo, unscrew the metal tube, clamp the turbo in a vise with the oil return port facing down and use a greased tap to make NPT threads.  Use a 45° NPT to barb fitting and run the return line around the back of the turbo to the pan. 

[fatmobile]

I'm guessing you were revving high to get up the hill and the timing jumped.
 Just the timing on the injection pump is effected not the cam/crank timing.

[Gizmoman]

Libbydiesel, Thanks for the tip on the turbo pipe - I'll be adding it to the list.

Fatmobile, I was probably in 3rd gear at about 4,000 at that point. So, if the timing belt slips on the pump it makes a "pop" and then quickly overheats? I would think it would make it really hard to start - but it did start several times fairly easily. However, I don't know these engines so I can't say for sure.
What are your thoughts on the loose pre-cup on cylinder #3? Is it loose only because the head is off or should it be tight (like the other three)?

[745 turbogreasel]

Cups are press fit, and should not move at all.
the don't directly seal against water,my burn through was in the aluminum area above and inboard of the chamber.

[Gizmoman]

Cups are press fit, and should not move at all.
the don't directly seal against water,my burn through was in the aluminum area above and inboard of the chamber.

So, I wouldn't see it without removing the cup?
I'd really like to pull out the loose cup and see if that is the case. Is this something i should do or should I leave it for the machine shop?
If this does end up being the issue, is it new head time or can it be salvaged?

Can you or any one else recommend a good San Diego machine shop?
I'm also in need of a good source for parts (gaskets, rings, possible head, etc). Also what brands are best and brands to shy away from.

Cheers - and thanks for the clear section view of the motor!

[theman53]

IMHO when the cup is loose if you have the money I would replace the head. I had an engine fail because of one. Sounds like you are looking for longevity so I would replace it. If you want to roll the dice, it may go 200,000 miles or it may go 5,000 miles, or some other distance longer or shorter. If you do run it and it comes out you will hear a very quiet "stuck lifter sound" and a little bit of a power loss, when you do shut it down and pull the head do not continue to run the engine. See my link in my sig to see what can happen if you do. At least this way you can save the bottom end.

[R.O.R-2.0]

The turbo is a K14. From what I have read this is good for building quick boost. Anyone is welcome to chime in as to if it's the best turbo for a Vanagon. I was running at 15 psi max and it was there a lot of the time (any uphill at all).

The numbers on the block (stamped on a smooth area below injector #3) are 370 015. There is nothing on the back of the block to say it's a 1.9 but I'm hoping it doesn't rule out that it could still be a 1.9 (pleeeease).
A quick measurement with digital calipers at the top of the barrels show a 79.50mm [3.1290"] bore. This should tell what the engine is for sure (1.9 or 1.6).

The pump is a Bosch 149. There is another set of numbers: 01175176490. Hopefully these will help. - If not I have more numbers.

A straightedge on the deck and head shows no light.

I did some searching and found that a 79.5 mm bore makes this a 1.9 (unless you could bore a 1.6 3mm over).

None of the injector tips look deformed.
The pre-cup on cylinder #3 is slightly loose - the others seem quite solid. Is there a flow path to the water channels if this is loose? I did notice a few specks of black/brown stuff in my over-flow tank but it was very little.

Thanks all

a 1.9, will say 1.9TD right on the back of the block, under the turbo.. every single one ive seen (besides GEX engines) has had the 1.9TD cast into the block. maybe you got a GEX engine?

[Gizmoman]

Ok,
This is what I have so far (many thanks to you folks). . .
1. Because the precup on #3 is loose, and I want a bullet-proof engine, I should get a new head. The head I have has a serious pit very close to a water port as well that would need some Tig welding and then a re-grind to clean it up anyway.
Any suggestions on where to purchase a QUALITY head complete and what should I expect to pay for this gem?

Also, I still want to take out the loose precup 'cause I need to see if it in fact cut/burned through to the water jacket. If it did then I can be assured that this was the issue. If anyone has some pointers on how to remove the precup, please let me know (is it simply a press fit or is there a pin or something I need to remove). IOW, I need to be certain that this was the problem.

2. I will re-do the oil drain line from the turbo so the port points straight down.

3. The engine is defiantly a 1.9 - as it says so on the block (thanks Theman53) - the motor in the Vanagon is not tranverse mounted so last night when I was looking for the numbers as you suggested, I was looking at what you would call the left end (from the driver's position) and of course, there are no numbers there. It was rotated on the stand so the cast numbers were on the bottom and I never thought to look there.

4. If someone has the 12 point bolt (1 of four) that holds the K14 turbo to the manifold, I'd appreciate a PM. Another part that would be tough for me to find would be an AAZ timing belt cover to replace the crappy metal one I have.

A few unresolved questions yet remain . . .

Apparently my 1.9 has a 1.6 injection pump and bracket. The PO had this thing set up to switch to bio-diesel - huge aluminum tank, heaters, solenoid valves, etc.. maybe that has something to do with the pump selection. However, I'm removing all that stuff and wonder if a 1.9 pump (possibly a Giles) would serve the engine better? I suppose the pump size may also have something to do with the fit-up in the Vanagon - it is quite snug under the deck and I don't know if a 1.9 pump would fit (if it's much larger). In the event that I don't have room for a larger pump, and the 1.6 pump seemed to work, should I send it to Giles to work over based on my application?

Is the K14 turbo the best turbo for a Vanagon application? My typical driving is freeway but I also spend a lot of time chugging around mountain roads in the Sierras. I will be installing a water to air IC from Frozen Boost to help add some density to the O2. Any recommendations welcome. As I mentioned earlier, the shaft has a tiny amount of side-to side play but spins freely. Should I consider rebuilding the K14?

I may as well do the bottom end as I have no clue how many miles are on this motor. What are the best pistons, rings bearings to use and where is the best place to shop for them?

That's plenty of questions for now. Every response is much appreciated. If it weren't for you guys and your wisdom, I'd have simply tossed this thing and cried.

Gizmoman.

[burn_your_money]

To remove the precup use the largest punch you can that will fit down the injector hole. Give it a tap and out she comes. If you want to play it extra safe (uncracked AAZ precups are worth something) put tape over the opening of the precup and fill it with salt, then use the punch.

[theman53]

I am not saying your head is toast, I just would use a better head if you want the best start at a long living engine. I would keep the old head and work on it if it were me, but only as a backup. Then of course you end up with an entire shed full of enough VW parts to build 3 if you had shells for them. I guess it is all in what you want to do.

[Gizmoman]

To remove the precup use the largest punch you can that will fit down the injector hole. Give it a tap and out she comes. If you want to play it extra safe (uncracked AAZ precups are worth something) put tape over the opening of the precup and fill it with salt, then use the punch.

Great idea. Precups are loose on 1, 3 & 4. I took out the loosest (#3) with a screwdriver and was actually hoping to see a hole burnt through to the water jacket. I really need to solve the instant over heat I experienced after it "popped". Based on your advice, I took out the other 3 - no holes in the chambers so the "hunt" is still on I suppose.

Due to the loose pre-cups, this head would need some Tigging and machining to save - 3 of 4 came out fairly easily and I have a fairly deep pit in the surface quite close to a water jacket port.
I found one on e-bay fror a bit over 850 complete http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-AAZ-1-9-TD-Complete-OEM-Kolbenschmidt-Cylinder-Head-/290557711265?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43a696d3a1&vxp=mtr#ht_1248wt_906.
Does this sound like a good deal - does anyone know this seller?

Trust me, I'm not Mr. money-bags but I want this to be reliable.

Thanks.

[theman53]

850. for a new KS head isn't too bad and he is a good seller IIRC. I would see if someone in Canada on here would send you one and you could have it redone for less than that, but you could get a head with the same precups as what you have. I would think you could take your head to a machinist and have it fixed for less than that, so it is all up to you what you want to do.

If all your cups were loose and #3 just about fell out then I would say that is your white smoke and power loss. Mine did that *not much smoke*for the last 3 miles or so then it added the stuck lifter noise. I would say you were dangerously close to what happend to mine. Mine in all honesty probably would have lived if I wouldn't have restarted it and tried to find what the hell the noise was.

[Gizmoman]

Mine in all honesty probably would have lived if I wouldn't have restarted it and tried to find what the hell the noise was.

That's why it was tough to answer everyone's questions about the behavior of the engine after it went side-ways - I knew something was very wrong and running it scared the s%$t out me - wasn't much time to diagnose.
Nonetheless, as I have no lead of any sort on a good mechanic who was familiar with this motor, I'm leaning towards the "plug-and-play" variety. I'm in San Diego and there are very few 1.9 AAZ diesels running about - so I figure finding an experianced mechanic would be a crap-shoot.

Any thoughts on my 1.6 pump on a 1.9? - seems odd to me but it seemed to run fine - like about 75 HP