how to manuel advance IP

[mtrans]

Hi,
Because my use on alternative fuel I have disel sound on ~1/3 to 1/2 of pedal after that is gone.When I am on stop it start to smoke little but I dont like that.When I lose D sound I usualy get some smoke.
My Fiat Ducato pump 0 460 494 189 has no cold start or anything(but I can change IP),can I put nidle valve or something else BELOW OUT bolt to do that with some manuel control.
When I press pedal a little smoke is gone so I think I don`t need some exterme setup.
I see you did it before on piston/spring but that way I can`t control.
Did too much can damage roler ring or....?

[R.O.R-2.0]

why not add a cold start advance if you want one? they are not hard to add..

what fuel are you using? is it THICKER than diesel? if its THICKER, then it will dump more timing advance sooner, because the thicker fuel will get the pump pressure higher, sooner.. so your timing, how it is set now, is for thin diesel. it advances properly with the proper viscosity of fuel..

you might want to play around with the pressure regulator, rather than try and fool the regulator, you might as well change the actual pressure setting..

[mtrans]

I was think that cold start advance is just work on start,and I want in drive to adjust?which by way I don`t have by Fiat factory.
Fuel is THICKER than diesel as you gess,but I heat it so it`s not much like D in viscosity,but it`s difference in burn characteristics,and I lose disel sound after 1/2 pedal,untill that good sound and very little gray smoke and after 1/2 pedal in order of driving conditions of corse- more.
If I play with pressure regulator it is fix condition.and I think I need flexy thing.Right now(as before) it`s 43 psi on any kind of fuel.Anybody play like that?

[R.O.R-2.0]

I was think that cold start advance is just work on start,and I want in drive to adjust?which by way I don`t have by Fiat factory.
Fuel is THICKER than diesel as you gess,but I heat it so it`s not much like D in viscosity,but it`s difference in burn characteristics,and I lose disel sound after 1/2 pedal,untill that good sound and very little gray smoke and after 1/2 pedal in order of driving conditions of corse- more.
If I play with pressure regulator it is fix condition.and I think I need flexy thing.Right now(as before) it`s 43 psi on any kind of fuel.Anybody play like that?

i would play with the pump regulator. it sounds as if your timing curve is all wrong for your engine. messing with the pressure regulator may fix you right up..

either that, or get your pump calibrated for the viscosity of the fuel you are running..

might have to play with the size of the orifice in the OUT bolt to get things JUST RIGHT..

[ORCoaster]

I think I know what Mtrans is after.  Variable timing control.  He wants to be able to change the placement of the timing cam as the engine is running. 

We know that is done with the movement of the cam position when the big ring moves clockwise when the pressure goes up.  So like R.O.R says the key is to change the regulator.  But if you do it for idle it is set, if you do it for higher RPM, or higher pressure point it is also set.

Mtrans may be like me and run a variety of different viscus fluids in the engine.  Diesel is one, WVO is another, and BioDiesel is the third for me.  Each gives me a different reading on the pressure gauge I have mounted at the top of the IP.  Also different at cold or hot.  So if I adjust the regulator for WVO I am off on the others.  BioD again off.  I need to tune it to the fuel I run as it is running.  Because I change it on the fly.

So here is what I have in mind.  He asked if we play?  I need a collar that would go into the hole of the regulator and hold that upper pin in place.  Then I need a solid shaft cable that threads on one end on a nut.  That cable would push down on the pin when I turn it in the car in a clockwise fashion.  Cable would be like 6-7mm in diameter to do this.  As I drive I watch the gauge, and turn the knob left or right to get to the same pressure with the different fuels.  In a sense custom tuning on the get go.  Mechanical advance using pressure to do the work, from a mechanical twisting operation. 

Did I lose anyone?  Ok more beers. 

This sort of adjustment reminds me of those days when I was able to fly small planes.  We turned the throttle and mix to get better air miles per gallon or to run it rich when going through cold air.  Maybe it was overkill but it kept us awake.

[mtrans]

ORCoaster-colleague by fuel are best to understood,come in Eu and drink packaging of bear on me.
Yes its needs to adjust on fly,a little I tnink.
I don`t have pressure gauge all the time(below OUT bolt),but if I remmeber there is NO much difference betwen fuel when I test(3.6-10bar),so how much different in all situation?For me presure reg. is hard,much eazy with nidle valve below OUT bolt,Q is did one get something with?

[ORCoaster]

Mtrans, is it your plan to drill through the outbanjo and install a needle valve in the place where the tiny hole is now?  Turning the screw in to increase pressure and out to decrease it?  That may not work if the initial regulator up front is set too low in the first place.  And I think that is where the control for the timing takes place.  Not so much the out bolt. 

Maybe some other clear brained wizards can enlighten us. 

I have had too much paint fumes and problems with my cooing system to be able to think straight tonight. 

Later DAS

[mtrans]

No I dont drill through the outbanjo,I never like that idea,here is mine

below is banjo for presure and on top is standaed OUT banjo
It`s only way that I can adjust I think or not?Problem is that I can`t get eazy valve,but I`ll try.

[ORCoaster]

I have a similar setup on my IP but my understanding of the pressure regulation at the point of the OUT banjo is a very small hole that only lets a certain amount of fluid pass.  So it is the restriction, or in essence the "valve"  you would have to change.

Now what if you replaced the normal out banjo with an inlet one, as they do not have the restriction.  All the internal pressure would be conveyed to the hose and you could perhaps bring that to a normal pressure regulator and gauge set up inside.  Change at will and to whatever viscosity of fuel that is running at the time. 

I know that changes too as I also monitor the inlet temperature of my fuel with digital devices developed for service tables at a buffet.  I can watch the temp change by tenths of a degree and once the fuel gets moved around in my systems even the straight diesel from the tank will  heat up on my 4 hours of driving..

Would that get you to where you want to be with a control mechanism?

[mtrans]

Nice idea about In banjo,one will know only after test of corse.Whole idea is with nidle valve on shall we say max I`ll have normal pressure but when I turn down I get more press in IP-more advance.
I like to know if some KBE,LDA,ECO etc, will work or help with some modifications(I don`t have nothing now)?
I think that pressure regulator is much hard to control,and I would like to keep stock setings,only incrise when i NEED.Ha ha many wishes.