Author Topic: 1.6 td engine - Modify 020 ACN trans for lower rpm highway cruising?  (Read 10556 times)

Reply #15June 30, 2012, 05:37:41 am

bbob203

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Re: 1.6 td engine - Modify 020 ACN trans for lower rpm highway cruising?
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2012, 05:37:41 am »
Yeah I agree w/ theman on that 100%, pick up a good diff middle, put the ring on it and put it in the ACN.  Bam, 0.71 5th and gear ratios that work together well instead of something like 4+E.  Don't be afraid to ask broke, he's an agreeable dude from what I hear.

THE GUY IS SOLID. Just ordered two full seal kits off of him he answered all my questions right away and didn't hesitate to tell me if theres anything else i need just holler at him and he will help.
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Reply #16June 30, 2012, 10:36:22 am

DogDiesel

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Re: 1.6 td engine - Modify 020 ACN trans for lower rpm highway cruising?
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2012, 10:36:22 am »
1981 VW Pickup:  My Caddy.
I used an ASF 020 with 3:67 and replace the .75 with .71.  Then I uprated my tires to 15" tires with diameter of 24" 
My reason for doing it was that I installed an AAZ 1.9TD and it was revving unnecessarily.  Had to install a converter on my speedometer cable to correct the speed, but I am now spot on and GPS and speedometer read the same at all speeds.
I have more acceleration than I had with a 1.6 or 1.6TD and the acceleration seems smoother. 

I have owned a VW pickup for the last 30 years, not the same one, but alway have one.  I have keep a record of my fill-ups on all them.  This is the only one, with the set-up above that made 50MPG over 2000 miles or more average.
Worst I can make it do is 42MPG.  For most of my pickups that was my best mileage.

Recommend Broke also on .71 conversions.  Missmathed gearsets will be noisy.

Wayne

Has anyone taken their 1.6 turbo diesel's ACN (or other) trans and modded the 5th gear for lower rpm highway cruising? .71 is okay, but I want to cruise the highway at 75-80mph without the engine @3500rpm. What does it entail to swap in a better 5th gear? Anyone done it? I think giulianot on here had a .65 in his, and I've tried to IM him about it to no avail. Your help is appreciated. Thanks!

Reply #17July 01, 2012, 04:18:57 pm

punkvideo81

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Re: 1.6 td engine - Modify 020 ACN trans for lower rpm highway cruising?
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2012, 04:18:57 pm »
Thanks for your input, guys. I might just make an ideal setup out of my ACN and swap in the FN's .71 5th gear. Now I need to figure out how to make the ride smoother than my current rims which are 195 45 16, a day of driving with them leaves you rattled and tired. I do a lot of driving in this truck and need it comfortable.



Going to old 14 inch GTI snowflakes would take care of the rough ride, but the smaller overall diameter will actually raise rpm's.

I thought that maybe when these tires need replacing, go up from a 45 series to a 60 series. Don't know how well that will work. I have a feeling it might look ridiculously tall. Taller sidewalls would soften the ride, and it would maintain (or even raise) the tall aspect of the tires/rims, which would keep rpms low.

What do you think?
'81 Caddy 1.6 TD

Reply #18July 01, 2012, 04:58:32 pm

CrazyAndy

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Re: 1.6 td engine - Modify 020 ACN trans for lower rpm highway cruising?
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2012, 04:58:32 pm »
175/65 R14 is a good size to run on snowflakes; good contact pattern, only 0.1" taller than your current setup, and the sidewall is taller like you want.  But just wondering, what is your suspension setup like?  And what do you set your tire pressures to?  I know they are low profiles, but these other parameter can mildly to drastically affect your ride quality.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 06:46:04 pm by CrazyAndy »


Reply #19July 01, 2012, 09:20:36 pm

punkvideo81

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Re: 1.6 td engine - Modify 020 ACN trans for lower rpm highway cruising?
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2012, 09:20:36 pm »
175/65 R14 is a good size to run on snowflakes; good contact pattern, only 0.1" taller than your current setup, and the sidewall is taller like you want.  But just wondering, what is your suspension setup like?  And what do you set your tire pressures to?  I know they are low profiles, but these other parameter can mildly to drastically affect your ride quality.

There are coilovers up front and a flipped axle in the rear backed up by air shocks. I keep the tires filled @ 35psi.
'81 Caddy 1.6 TD

Reply #20July 02, 2012, 10:29:59 pm

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.6 td engine - Modify 020 ACN trans for lower rpm highway cruising?
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2012, 10:29:59 pm »
I do not know how interchangable stuff is from 020, 02a, and 02j...They make a .685 gear for my 02j TDI trans, maybe something like that could be adapted to fit an 020?

NOT EVEN CLOSE to the same..

i wouldnt try and modify an existing hardened gear, i would have a NEW gear set cut if you are THAT desperate..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #21July 03, 2012, 03:33:24 am

theman53

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Re: 1.6 td engine - Modify 020 ACN trans for lower rpm highway cruising?
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2012, 03:33:24 am »
IMHO if it was hardend before, then it has a high carbon content. It could therefore be hardend again. I don't know what the differences are. I know some of the later 020 gears had height differeces and they could be swapped after replacing some parts. The hardest machining would be how the gears mesh. I would think if someone could use an already machined gear and turn it to the thickness/grooves needed and the ID/OD needed then heat treat it could work. This is assuming the OD of the gear would even fit in the case and together with the rest of it. Just a thought, not a for sure do this kind of suggestion, but glad to know they won't work at all.

Reply #22July 03, 2012, 10:50:47 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.6 td engine - Modify 020 ACN trans for lower rpm highway cruising?
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2012, 10:50:47 am »
IMHO if it was hardend before, then it has a high carbon content. It could therefore be hardend again. I don't know what the differences are. I know some of the later 020 gears had height differeces and they could be swapped after replacing some parts. The hardest machining would be how the gears mesh. I would think if someone could use an already machined gear and turn it to the thickness/grooves needed and the ID/OD needed then heat treat it could work. This is assuming the OD of the gear would even fit in the case and together with the rest of it. Just a thought, not a for sure do this kind of suggestion, but glad to know they won't work at all.

once its hardened, its HARD...

im not aware of a way to SAFELY un-temper metals..

HARD metal is HARD to mill!

but, if you have gears cut from billets, THEN hardened, that would be ideal.. and not an afterthought (like trying to make an existing gear set work that is miles from being close..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #23July 03, 2012, 11:49:52 am

theman53

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Re: 1.6 td engine - Modify 020 ACN trans for lower rpm highway cruising?
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2012, 11:49:52 am »
If you induction harden something it maybe only hardened for the first .050" or so, maybe not that much. I was thinking if you machine that off then it could be hardened again. Plus anything machined could mess with the temper as well.

Again, not that I said it would work or that it was close. I said maybe it could be done. If it were my project I would definately find out, but since it isn't I am just giving ideas to chase to the person whose it is. Again, glad to know it won't work.

Reply #24July 03, 2012, 11:53:17 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.6 td engine - Modify 020 ACN trans for lower rpm highway cruising?
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2012, 11:53:17 am »
it is HARD to machine a piece of HARDENED metal..

when you try cutting hardened metal, you need something WAY HARDER to do the cutting..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #25July 03, 2012, 06:09:19 pm

punkvideo81

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Re: 1.6 td engine - Modify 020 ACN trans for lower rpm highway cruising?
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2012, 06:09:19 pm »
Thanks Andy. Talked with Broke, he had good advice. On a related topic - has anyone out there mated a TDI 02a/02j transmission with a 1.6td with any success? I didn't think that was possible.
'81 Caddy 1.6 TD

Reply #26July 04, 2012, 12:43:24 am

nathantheengineer

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Re: 1.6 td engine - Modify 020 ACN trans for lower rpm highway cruising?
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2012, 12:43:24 am »
I am coming from a long background of petrol vw's 

We currently have 3 mk3's 2 petrol and 1 aaz.

The GTi and Vr6 we own would both benefit from a 6 speed conversion, as they are cable boxes with hydraulic clutches there are a few choices.

Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel have you thought about making an adapter and fitting a 6 speed from a mk4 pdi?

Easier to machine an adapter plate rather than splitting boxes.  Main query i would have is would it actually fit in a mk1?

Just thinking aloud.

Cheers

Nathan 

Reply #27July 04, 2012, 11:44:44 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.6 td engine - Modify 020 ACN trans for lower rpm highway cruising?
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2012, 11:44:44 am »
whos splitting boxes?
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #28July 04, 2012, 03:25:43 pm

CrazyAndy

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Re: 1.6 td engine - Modify 020 ACN trans for lower rpm highway cruising?
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2012, 03:25:43 pm »
Thanks Andy. Talked with Broke, he had good advice. On a related topic - has anyone out there mated a TDI 02a/02j transmission with a 1.6td with any success? I didn't think that was possible.

Yes any TDI/4cyl 02a/o2j trans can work, but not any vr6 ones; different angle in bell housings for hood fittment in corrado/mk3 models.  Doing this myself w/ a 1.9AAZ, which is similar to a 1.6TD. 

To get the trans in:
1.Trans mounts: Google 'MK1 02a trans mounts' and see who does them.  Bought mine from WRD(watercooled racing development);  Nothing-Leaves-Stock also makes some, Just Caddys in the UK does too.  You can build some if you're handy w/ a welder, just make sure the drivetrain is properly orientated for this; lateral and longitudinal angles and all that.  The D/S trans mount should have a bracket for clutch cable if you plan on going w/ the stock cable setup.  If it doesn't then get a '93 eurovan trans mount and use the bracket off of that, or sandwich the half of the bracket w/ it on into your D/S mount.
2.Shift linkage: Obviously you could use the 02a/02j cables; knock out the blank in the firewall for the auto trans shifter cable and feed them through.  That, or route them under the exhaust tunnel, but that sometimes requires cutting.  Don't expect to retain your original shift cover parts, unfortunately, as the cable routing doesn't jive with that 99% of the time.  If you prefer rod linkage and stock interior, however, clausvonessen.de sells an 02a shift rod conversion kit.  Very nice (read:expensive), and has all installation documentation w/ pretty good pictures.  Make sure to ask for instructions in english, just in case.
3. Shift cable/hydraulics: For keeping the hydraulic circuit from your 02a donor car; you'll need to modify your original pedal cluster and firewall.  The scirocco website funksoulkitty.org has great info on this, as well as some driveline mount info.  Keeping it cable?  Then get the clutch actuator of the same '93 eurovan you got the cable bracket off of.  Unfortunately 02a clutch cables are a bit thin on the ground, so use the cable from a 1991ish CRX (yes a HONDA; I'm sorry).  It's a bit long, but you can make it work by either running the excess along the fender or in front of the grille a bit.
4. Axles:  Here's where it gets both easy and hard.  You can use the 100mm axles from a 16v scirocco as an outright bolt-in solution, but good luck finding them.  If that fails, you might try getting some '85-on cabriolet axles.  If that fails you'll eigher have to find spindles from a 100mm car and swap them on, or clearance the angle on the outer driveshaft CVs.

TL;DR version:  100% doable, but expect to spend time fabbing and modding parts and/or spending money on conversion parts.  I went with the latter of those two as I have 2 left feet and 10 thumbs.

Either way, if you lay your hands on a box you like the GO FOR IT!

And P.S.:  nathantheengineer is right about 6-speeding an 02a/j being good mods depending on the box's ratios, but they are MONEY.  Expect to give up a few things to afford that; something like, oh I dunno, eating.   ::)


Reply #29July 05, 2012, 01:09:02 am

nathantheengineer

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Re: 1.6 td engine - Modify 020 ACN trans for lower rpm highway cruising?
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2012, 01:09:02 am »
There is one for sale in the UK ( very quick google search) that comes up at £375.  also there is a chap up north who does a complete conversion,

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=331943

However its £1250.

I am sure that people on here are talented enough to manufacture their own fitting kit, not as difficult as compound charging!!!