Check out the NEW Facebook group HERE

Check out the Twitter page HERE

Author Topic: 1.9aaz moded to TDI in a Jeep.  (Read 36174 times)

June 12, 2012, 07:22:04 pm

theman53

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 7807
  • Personal Text
    Holmes County Ohio - North Central Ohio
    • View Profile
1.9aaz moded to TDI in a Jeep.
« on: June 12, 2012, 07:22:04 pm »
1.9aaz moded to TDI in a Jeep Wrangler CJ...

This will be my next project I think. I will get my jetta done first, but after and possilbly during I want to build a jeep for the wife. I have never been a jeep guy ever since my first car which was a CJ5 underneath welded onto a 74 super beetle up top. The 258 straight 6 was horrible.

At any rate, if any of you guys are jeep guys too, what jeeps should I start to look for? Probably will be a mall crawler as it is for the wife so it won't have huge tires on it, 33" at best. Ideally I want to find one that is rolling, blown up, and cheap. I just don't know about Jeeps other than I never liked them when I wheeled a lot. Seemed like driveshaft eating things. The axles weren't up to par either, but as stated this will be a female driven unit. Let me know what you guys that wheel jeeps prefer as what years, what to avoid, etc. I do have a set of puny dana 44s from a bronco that I could sub for the 35s or whatever those jeeps have. My 44 have 4.56 gears in them so I would need to know what trans ratios the jeeps have that would be desirable. I think acme makes adaptors, but I will make one if I cannot buy one. I will start searching soon for this info myself...it isn't like I cannot find the info, but I figured I would ask here first to get a head start and let you guys share knowledge if you have it.

Plan for the engine is MTDI AHU style with my AAZ bottom end. Huge nozzles and either my VNT 15 or the bigger VNT 2256 if it doesn't make it onto the 1.6 someday.



Reply #1June 13, 2012, 12:24:45 am

745 turbogreasel

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 2007
    • View Profile
Re: 1.9aaz moded to TDI in a Jeep.
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2012, 12:24:45 am »
CJ5 or earlier will be way lighter and less complicated to convert.

Reply #2June 13, 2012, 01:26:09 am

bajacalal

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1025
    • View Profile
Re: 1.9aaz moded to TDI in a Jeep.
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2012, 01:26:09 am »
If you hate Jeeps so much, why don't you just put the VW engine in a Samurai like everybody does?

I've probably owned a dozen different 4x4s. The Wrangler TJ Jeeps with coil springs are much more comfortable than the CJ series, followed by the Wrangler YJ (the square headlight ones). A CJ is probably one of the least comfortable vehicles out there and they aren't all that easy to drive if you aren't used to that kind of vehicle. They look so cool though. The fuel injection on a Wrangler would make the electronics something to contend with (get rid of) but the earlier ones, before 1991 I think, were carbureted and had things like a mechanical speedometer and gauges so those would be more suitable for a diesel swap.

Here's what I would do. Mercedes Benz. OM617. NV3500 or AX15 trans (that's the 5 speed that came in a Cherokee). I really, really want to put this combination in a CJ. I don't think it would be too challenging. An adapter exists to couple these together. I think that engine would be much more suited to this kind of vehicle.


Reply #3June 13, 2012, 02:01:59 am

billybobf

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 318
  • Personal Text
    89 golf 1.8 digi, 1.6 na in pieces in the shop
    • View Profile
Re: 1.9aaz moded to TDI in a Jeep.
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2012, 02:01:59 am »
I am considering putting an eco 1.6 in my toyota 4runner, but I daily drive it and Im not sure I will be ok with the lost power, but i also have 20 forward gears and 4 reverse gears, so Im sure I can HANDLE the lack of power in exchange for some good mileage burning whatever waste oil I can find

I think the jeep will be cool with a 1.9tdi

Reply #4June 13, 2012, 09:50:27 am

theman53

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 7807
  • Personal Text
    Holmes County Ohio - North Central Ohio
    • View Profile
Re: 1.9aaz moded to TDI in a Jeep.
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2012, 09:50:27 am »
Main reason I wouldn't do the sami is the wife doesn't like sami's she likes jeeps. She used to have a wrangler back in the day is why. That and I know even less about the sami platform.

I do not know anything about mercedes OM617 or how to mod them. I just did a quick search on ebay and the only one I found was 1,200 dollars plus freight, so I think I will stick to the M TDI plan. If one could be had cheaper I would go that route as the extra displacement would be nice. I would still have to learn, but for 1,000 dollars or more I can build a great running TDI out of what I have.

She won't mind the comfort deal as we have newer cars for that. She loves my old Bronco and it is 100% off road with 38.5x16.5 R15 and it doesn't ride well. But the big thing here is it will be a fun toy that she drives once in a while. If it is worthy maybe it would see the mud, but I doubt it.

Reply #5June 13, 2012, 12:34:36 pm

R.O.R-2.0

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 7341
  • Personal Text
    Pacific Northwest - Oregon - USA
    • View Profile
Re: 1.9aaz moded to TDI in a Jeep.
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2012, 12:34:36 pm »
im gonna go with OM617 power in my Toy 4runner..

you can get a WHOLE OM617 for ~$1000 on this side of the country..

i like the OM engine better in a big vehicle.. i think the 1.6 or 1.9 would be a bit of a stretch in a big (jeep sized) vehicle..

ive thought about using VW power, even bought a 2.0L I5 TD engine, but i feel even IT is too small for a 4000# vehicle..

an OM engine would feel right at home in a 4000#+ vehicle..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #6June 13, 2012, 04:55:02 pm

theman53

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 7807
  • Personal Text
    Holmes County Ohio - North Central Ohio
    • View Profile
Re: 1.9aaz moded to TDI in a Jeep.
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2012, 04:55:02 pm »
Those jeeps *IMHO* were gutless from stock with whatever 4 banger they had in there. The older ones were better. Still the only jeep I was ever impressed with that had a AMC/jeep powerplant was the 360 in a fiberglass tub my friend had. It was built very well, would pull the front tires off the ground 8 inches when he had 33" on it. Many friends have done the SBC in one that ran good, and one pal had a built 460, but it wasn't as impressive as the SBC or the 360.

That said, the TDI I am building should have plenty of oomph and weigh 1/2 as much as the OM617. Plus I don't have to learn another engine platform and get the engine and parts. I have to buy a head, pistons, and that is it. I have injectors and a turbo or 2 currently for the TDI. I am just looking for jeep info as to which years rust more, wheel bearing issues, axle/transfer case issues, electronic activated stuff to deal with etc.

Reply #7June 13, 2012, 05:13:20 pm

R.O.R-2.0

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 7341
  • Personal Text
    Pacific Northwest - Oregon - USA
    • View Profile
Re: 1.9aaz moded to TDI in a Jeep.
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2012, 05:13:20 pm »
Those jeeps *IMHO* were gutless from stock with whatever 4 banger they had in there. The older ones were better. Still the only jeep I was ever impressed with that had a AMC/jeep powerplant was the 360 in a fiberglass tub my friend had. It was built very well, would pull the front tires off the ground 8 inches when he had 33" on it. Many friends have done the SBC in one that ran good, and one pal had a built 460, but it wasn't as impressive as the SBC or the 360.

That said, the TDI I am building should have plenty of oomph and weigh 1/2 as much as the OM617. Plus I don't have to learn another engine platform and get the engine and parts. I have to buy a head, pistons, and that is it. I have injectors and a turbo or 2 currently for the TDI. I am just looking for jeep info as to which years rust more, wheel bearing issues, axle/transfer case issues, electronic activated stuff to deal with etc.

start off with a CJ if you want something thats gonna be cool, and last..

what are you going to do for a trans? the Jeep Peugeot 5 speeds are junk. the AX-10/15 trannies werent much better..

please tell me you are NOT considering using a stock Jeep slush-o-matic?
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #8June 13, 2012, 05:19:20 pm

theman53

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 7807
  • Personal Text
    Holmes County Ohio - North Central Ohio
    • View Profile
Re: 1.9aaz moded to TDI in a Jeep.
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2012, 05:19:20 pm »
I figured whatever I had that was decent...T18 4 speed if it would work.

Reply #9June 13, 2012, 05:22:56 pm

R.O.R-2.0

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 7341
  • Personal Text
    Pacific Northwest - Oregon - USA
    • View Profile
Re: 1.9aaz moded to TDI in a Jeep.
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2012, 05:22:56 pm »
I figured whatever I had that was decent...T18 4 speed if it would work.

OH!

so, you are planning on using an older setup?

i guess i should have clarified that all the trannies i was talking about, are 80s and newer trannies..

should be a pretty cool setup when its done..

only reason i want an OM powerplant in mine, is because its appropriate size to the vehicle, and the ability to make 300hp somewhat easily..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #10June 13, 2012, 08:16:56 pm

theman53

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 7807
  • Personal Text
    Holmes County Ohio - North Central Ohio
    • View Profile
Re: 1.9aaz moded to TDI in a Jeep.
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2012, 08:16:56 pm »
I really don't know. As far as that goes as long as I could adapt the transfer case and bell housing ends to it I "could" run anything. I really like the trans in the 94 chevy I have *NV4500* but I have no clue on dimentions of the jeep or how long that trans would be, or if there would be any driveshaft/diff problems of being on the opposite sides or not. IIRC jeeps and the new chevy are all driver side pumpkin...I am not even on stage 1 of the build, so don't flame too hard just yet LOL

Reply #11June 13, 2012, 09:46:13 pm

8v-of-fury

  • Guest
Re: 1.9aaz moded to TDI in a Jeep.
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2012, 09:46:13 pm »
So with most basics covered, what are you going to do about the Injection Pump? It will not be a bolt on and go operation to make an M-tdi as I'm sure you know already through my trail and errors eh Lucas?

I would talk to Andrew about the killer pumps he is hoping to be popping out in the next little while. 20mm shaft, 12mm head.. proper fueling and advance for our engines to redline.. and capable of fully fueling a 3.9L Chummings 4BT ;)

Reply #12June 13, 2012, 10:59:31 pm

theman53

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 7807
  • Personal Text
    Holmes County Ohio - North Central Ohio
    • View Profile
Re: 1.9aaz moded to TDI in a Jeep.
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2012, 10:59:31 pm »
I currently have a cummins 4b 12mm pump that will be modded

Reply #13June 14, 2012, 12:41:15 am

bajacalal

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1025
    • View Profile
Re: 1.9aaz moded to TDI in a Jeep.
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2012, 12:41:15 am »
I do not know anything about mercedes OM617 or how to mod them. I just did a quick search on ebay and the only one I found was 1,200 dollars plus freight, so I think I will stick to the M TDI plan. If one could be had cheaper I would go that route as the extra displacement would be nice. I would still have to learn, but for 1,000 dollars or more I can build a great running TDI out of what I have.

Are you serious? Around here, the 300d is the cheapest and most common diesel vehicle. Go anywhere in California and you will still see them on the roads. You can still find them in any junkyard. I have seen people sell them (the whole car) for under $500 not running or running with no papers, etc...
 
Come on, move out of your comfort zone a little. Learn something new. I'm thinking about getting a Honda CRX just because I have never owned a Japanese car and I want to explore something new. The Mercedes engines are very different from anything else on the road but they are still diesels just like ours... with an inline pump, cast iron head (on the OM617) and no timing belt. As far as power/weight you are looking at about the same as a stock Jeep inline 6 but with better fuel consumption.

Reply #14June 14, 2012, 08:46:06 am

theman53

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 7807
  • Personal Text
    Holmes County Ohio - North Central Ohio
    • View Profile
Re: 1.9aaz moded to TDI in a Jeep.
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2012, 08:46:06 am »
I think Californians may have had more money than the people in the farming community around here. I can count on one hand the Mercedes Diesel or not of that vintage I have ever seen on the road in Holmes county, my cousin owns one of them.
Like I said, IF I could find one rather cheap, as in 300.00 for a running engine, I would do it. I know to mod them wouldn't be that big of a deal. I know diesels, so the more air and fuel you dump to them the better they run, but I am thinking a 200hp TDI is just cheaper and easier for me. I also forgot to mention I have a new set of head studs made for our engines, rod, mains, oil pump...basically I only have to buy a gasket set, head, pistons, and injection lines and I am ready to go as I do have everything else. That and I really want to build a TDI. In your situation I would probably do the OM617, the biggest thing I would have to overcome is the lack of ability to mess with the IP. When I drove my cousins I looked into that IP he had to see what I could do and it just isn't as simple as the VE pumps.

 

NOLA Speed and Style