Best nozzle injector for comsuption improvment? - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
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Best nozzle injector for comsuption improvment? by JRD on 01 May, 2012 22:59
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I've read lot of post about nozzle injector.
But no one refer to the best nozzle for comsuption improvement.
I'm not searching for power on my engine, I prefer torque improvement with a VNT and max RPM reduction.
Do you think DN0SD274 can help me in my goal? -
#1 by R.O.R-2.0 on 02 May, 2012 11:17
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I've read lot of post about nozzle injector.
But no one refer to the best nozzle for comsuption improvement.
I'm not searching for power on my engine, I prefer torque improvement with a VNT and max RPM reduction.
Do you think DN0SD274 can help me in my goal?
there isnt much talk about VW nozzles, because they already have more than enough nozzle for the engine..
but why do you want to REDUCE your max RPMs? it only turns ~5000 right now anyways.. you could leave a brick on your accelerator pedal, start your car with a full tank of diesel, and the engine would run @ WOT until the tank was dry, then you could re-fill the tank, and do it all over again, every day, for the rest of your life, and still not hurt the engine..
these diesels are small, and nothing like a traditional direct injection diesel.. these engines have more of a gasser-like torque band.. they are also high RPM friendly.
if you want less fuel consumption, simply drive with a lighter right foot, and shift 500 rpms sooner.. maybe check your injection timing, advance it a little if necessary..
open up your intake and exhaust systems, thats where you get lots of gains.. making the engine breath easier will make it consume less fuel..
what trans do you have? if its a LOW geared trans, then you could even benefit from a trans swap possibly..
and if you feel that you NEED a VNT, and reduced engine RPMs with more low end torque, then swap a TDI in there, because the 1.6 just aint gonna do what you think you want it to.. -
#2 by 8v-of-fury on 02 May, 2012 18:55
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Yep the old IDI's, whether they be 1.6 or 1.9, will never have that low down grunt and pull that the TDI's have.
So ultimately a tiny k03 and more fuel, or a VNT and more fuel is what is gonna get you that low down torque feel on the 1.6. The only reason power feels late, is because of the T3 turbo you currently have on there from stock.. its a bigger turbo and doesn't even spool until 2500+ rpm. -
#3 by JRD on 02 May, 2012 23:01
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The question is not how I can reduce the comsuption of my engine.
I already know all the things about that!
My engine is actually based on a 1.6L TD, coupled with a VNT15 to improve boost at low RPM.
The trans is a 4T (1st, 2nd and 5th gear is the same as your ACN, 3rd and 4th gear are little taller than ACN)
The project was to reduce displacement to 1.5L, install a VNT12 and a better intake manifold (made from a Volvo D24T manifold) to reduce comsuption and improve torque at low RPM.
The VNT is actually directly boost controled (valve closed, open when the pression increase) but I will modified the control to close the valves with the pedal demand.
I also know that TDI is better for my goal.
But TDI is another project, not for the moment.
So I just wanted to know if a type of nozzle is recognize to improve comsuption, even if it can't help to reach the max RPM of the engine. -
#4 by 8v-of-fury on 03 May, 2012 04:32
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Reducing displacement will reduce low RPM torque, not make more of it. To reduce fuel consumption you simply push less with your right foot.
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#5 by R.O.R-2.0 on 03 May, 2012 11:04
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(made from a Volvo D24T manifold)
So I just wanted to know if a type of nozzle is recognize to improve comsuption, even if it can't help to reach the max RPM of the engine.
please DO NOT cut up D24 parts..
use a gasser vw intake.. i personally run a digifant intake, but a G60 intake, or CIS intake would work just as good.
PLEASE DONT CUT UP A D24 manifold!!! the gasser manifold has a better plenum and runner shape anyways..
and there really isnt a nozzle that is going to reduce fuel consumption.. you might try messing around with break pressures for your injectors, but you are not gonna get any gains from the NOZZLES them selves... you might raise or lower the break pressures, and get a mpg or 2 from that..
like i told you, there is really no improvement for the injection nozzles for these engines..
its not like a cummins where you run THIS set for mileage..
and run THAT set for a nice increase in power
or run THIS OTHER set, if you want massive amounts of fuel to turn the roadway black behind you..
you could try a different set, but its going to be totally trial and error.. the thing about the nozzles in there already, is they are DESIGNED for the engine, and pre-chamber design, so they play very well with the engine.. other nozzles may not play soo nicely, and may actually HARM something, like a glow plug, pre-cup, or maybe even melt a piston.. -
#6 by JRD on 03 May, 2012 12:45
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Thanks for this information about nozzle.
About D24T manifold, this is the only one I know who allow to put turbo above exhaust manifold.
With gasser manifold, turbo must be below the exhaust manifold.
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#7 by libbydiesel on 03 May, 2012 13:43
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You could flip the exhaust manifold. You need to do some grinding to make it fit flipped. I can't tell what exhaust manifold flange pattern is on the vnt12, but if you have to build an adapter anyway, then it's easy enough to use a short section of tube between the two flanges.
As far as nozzles go, I have tried various breaking pressures and have found fuel economy to *get worse* with higher break pressures even if timing is corrected. -
#8 by R.O.R-2.0 on 03 May, 2012 16:10
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Thanks for this information about nozzle.
About D24T manifold, this is the only one I know who allow to put turbo above exhaust manifold.
With gasser manifold, turbo must be below the exhaust manifold.
D24T manifold has the same curvature of the runners as a gasser intake..
you gotta flip the exhaust manifold any way you look at it, to use a long runner intake.
that D24 manifold bolted up, looks IDENTICAL to my gasser intake, but with 2 more ports.. -
#9 by JRD on 03 May, 2012 22:42
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I don't want to flip the exhaust manifold because there's no much place to put the turbo below the exhaust manifold (Due to speed selection on Caddy MK1)
Can you put a picture of your gasser manifold?
Here is a link who talk about D24T manifold and other one
http://www.tdocuk.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=5613 -
#10 by carrizog60 on 04 May, 2012 00:04
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weld the hot side to the manifold.
i had to do that on my passat due to small space for turbo.
as for fuel average how many lt do you get at 100km? -
#11 by R.O.R-2.0 on 04 May, 2012 09:47
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I don't want to flip the exhaust manifold because there's no much place to put the turbo below the exhaust manifold (Due to speed selection on Caddy MK1)
Can you put a picture of your gasser manifold?
Here is a link who talk about D24T manifold and other one
http://www.tdocuk.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=5613
look at how far your turbo is from fitting.. do you really think you are going to get it to line up with the long runner intake, and WITHOUT flipping the manifold? the HOT SIDE of the turbo hits the intake REALLY BAD. its not going to bolt up, not even close..
whats wrong with running a TD manifold? if space is TIGHT, why are you using such a HUGE manifold? that sounds kinda dumb.. i used a big manifold because i had plenty of room to use..
anyways, heres my intake.. it doesnt show the turbo, but theres a VNT15 underneath it.. they play VERY WELL together..
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#12 by theman53 on 04 May, 2012 18:01
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In your pic you could make a spacer out of 2 flanges and not flip the turbo. But in doing so you are adding time and volume to the exhaust which will hurt spool. Your turbo will like the hottest air possible and in the quickest time. I am contemplating making my own ex. mani with even shorter runners to see what is able to be done with it. Either way you decide good luck and tell us about your results.
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#13 by R.O.R-2.0 on 05 May, 2012 11:15
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hes going to be running a VNT12, its going to be restrictive over 3000RPMs, and be spooled @ idle... i dont think hes worried about spool..