'85 Golf sick, IP to blame?

[overdrivegear]

Having a problem here with an '85 Golf and an '82 Rabbit Diesel installed (CR engine code) after installing a supposedly rebuilt injection pump following the catastrophe that befell my previous one. I'll try to be as thorough as possible in describing the behavior.

I posted on this forum back in January or February about my injection pump that was hosed. I replaced it with one that was supposedly rebuilt from a shop in Ohio. Installed all the brackets etc. from the engine, installed the pump, and timed the engine and pump according to spec. Having a couple problems in which the pump is suspect:  1.) The cold start arm/valve does nothing on this new pump. On my previous one, pulling the cold start cable would noticeably increase engine idle speed--as it is intended to work. This new one does nothing either at cold or operating temperature. 2.) The engine seems to be choking out if the car is in idle for any length of time. Before it finally dies, the pump enters some sort of non-responsive state where the RPMs will drop very low, and working the throttle even wide open does absolutely nothing to increase the fuel flow or engine speed. Occasionally, it will enter this "zombified" state of catatonia if the engine has been driven up a hill, for instance, and one stops and gets off the clutch, returning the engine to idle. It quickly either dies or idles so low and rough it'll beat you to death, so it has to be turned off. This sometimes even happens well after the car is at operating temperature, often if stopped at an intersection. 3.) The car is very difficult to start, especially cold. Previously, even without the cold start pulled, the ignition might needed to stay on for a few seconds, but now it might take 20 seconds before the car fires. Usually it takes several attempts before it begins to sputter and then finally catches and runs. It seems it's even getting harder to start as the days progress--almost like fuel is completely leaving the supply line after the car is turned off and therefore must be pumped from the tank each time it's cranked. Strangely, the car drives just fine if it is not allowed to idle. There is no knocking at higher RPMs, no choking, no sputtering, and no pulsing.

A couple comments of what I've done that may or may not be related:

A new head gasket was put on the car about 500 miles ago. Previous to this, it would just about overheat, but now that seems to have cleared up. Before replacing the head gasket and even, as I've discovered, after doing so, the cooling system is filled with engine oil. This was a problem before the head gasket was replaced, but after the new one was installed, I ran washing powder in the cooling system for at LEAST 4 empty-refill cycles, draining the emulsified mixture every couple days. There is still oil in the water and more being added. This seems to suggest either the head is cracked or the block is cracked. New pistons have been installed in the engine not too long ago, also. One of the injectors was pulled and, although it did have some carbon on it, the injector did seem ok but was not thoroughly tested. The car runs on both diesel and veggie oil and is always started and stopped on diesel. Both fuels go through one fuel filter. I've noticed no difference in behavior with regard to fuel. The car has only one fuel pump.

Now questions:

Does this car have a fuel pressure accumulator like some gas models (ex., Cabriolet)? Could Cam timing have anything to do with this? Is the fuel pump simply out of adjustment, or has it been incorrectly rebuilt? If the former, can this be adjusted on the car? If not, how about off? Is there a litmus test that can be performed on the pump without cracking it open to prove one way or another?


Anything I left out, just ask.

Thanks to all the experts in advance.

[vanbcguy]

The issues you describe very much sound like fuel starvation.  Do you have any bubbles in your supply or return lines?  Do you have clear lines in the engine bay?

There's no fuel accumulator or anything like that.  The fuel system is extremely simple.  There is sometimes a water separator under the rear of the car on Mk IIs that likes to crack and let air in, it is generally removed as it isn't really required with today's diesel.  It certainly would be a possibility in your case.

As to the idle speed vs. cold start handle - there are two styles of pumps, the '107' pump and the '109' pump.  The 107's don't have any idle speed adjustment with the cold start handle, only the 109s do.  There's an extra vertical rod on the valve cover side of the pump going from the cold start lever to the top of the pump on the 109s, it isn't present on the 107s.  Mk II cars came with both styles of pumps - the 107 was fitted to earlier cars and the 109 to later ones.

[damac]

man you are dealing with allot of issues.

can't help with the oil in coolant.  i never saw that with my car, which just happens to have been overheated bad by a family member   lots of pressure in the coolant system but I'm seeing no oil.  Does your car have the oil cooler/coolant exchanger like my turbo diesel does?  Perhaps that is breached?

I would not have let the waste oil touch the car until you got things ironed out.  Speaking from experience your injection pump could very well be clogged up.  I had the same thing happen during an experiment with a cocktail and it sitting.  Car barely turned over and I had to do 2 soakings of atf for a day each before it would fire up on its own again.

I broke that pump down a couple weeks later and found gunk attached to body walls and also the vanes.  So much gunk was in the way I couldn't spin the plate with just my hand without binding.  I don't even understand why it was running as good as it was at that point.

My car has been plagued with some kind of restrictions that would draw fuel from the tank when off.  So every cold start it had to purghe itself then run rough for a bit until it cleared itself out and then would run like normal.  Ended up running new lines all the way back to the tank, blowing lines out, and resealing my pump.  It got getter but there always seemed to be a bubble hanging out at the inlet.

Every pump I have come across used thus far has reacted to the cold start lever so that doesn't seem good.  If your engine was so clackity to begin with perhaps you wouldn't notice a difference but if its that loud I doubt you would running it, since it would sound like somebody hitting the engine with hammers.


Here is another wierd one.  A few months ago I decided to mess with my lda on my pump to clear some off boost smoke.  I had messed with things and found fuel underneath, not enough to come out vent but it would be there after running.  Now literally this is all I did and when I went to drive the car the wierdest thing happened.  Car would start but within 5 minutes the idle would drop until reving it the car would not return to idle and die.  Ended up using an electric pump, fuel from a jug, new filter, etc. and it persisted.  One time while reving the return line blew up like a baloon and bursted off and then the fuel shot back through the inlet.

I was baffled, yanked my pump off the car and cleaned and resealed everything just to confirm.  Everything seemed correct, in relation, no buildup or burn marks, etc.

I put the pump back together, retimed it and it has been working since, BUT I ended up having to turn the fuel in just a bit to get a new baseline for idling.  This fuel screw was still staked!  The only thing I noticed at the time was that the governor arm where it was indexed was in its slot when I pulled the lid, but wasn't turned to the side to lock into that tab?  Did it move, did it not go together when resealed many months before I have no clue.




Now with my crazy pump the car would die just down the block like 10 times and not restart hot, it was really wierd.  I assumed restriction but I ran all the lines into a bucket in the  front seat with a new filter.   You make it sound like it will rev out atleast.

Only time I have seen that crazy kind of bucking and non responsiveness from the pump is when big air bubbles are at the inlet and the car is about to die.   You definately need to have some clear hose in the engine bay from a bucket on both sides with a new filter to start fresh and troubleshoot from the get go.

I installed a china fuel filter that I purged in a bucket and it was causing crazy restrictions from the get go I couldn't believe it.