The plastic bottle hone and cognitive thrift vs cheapness discussion

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

My method does appear to have worked, but who knows perhaps my experiment will only last a few more years, whilst yours might last longer. [/color]

I think that's the core of the debate right there. Whether or not to experiment, or when experimentation is justified.

The debate can be never ending, but need not be. I've tried to be  honest, frank, and open to reasoned doubt.Some of the objections have been quite trivial, yet, when I raise a point, like for example; what are the vertical lines on the 'perfect' hone, I get silence...   Even if my engine died tomorrow, after 18months, it would not have lasted less than some of the ventures here on this forum.

I checked the oil level today, and it is still level with the maximum spot on the dip stick. I can't remember when I last gave it some, I think it was last summer.
I see also that the weeping seal on top, has slowed so the cover is merely sweaty looking, with no drip stains, so that is good.

I have spent my whole life creating stuff from nothing, and recycling. In 35 years of driving I've only used a garage for doing front wheel bearings, and giving me the annual road worthiness certificate. This is how I've been brought up.

Back to the issue.
If everyone only does a thorough deep hone as per the book, yet sometimes it fails to stop oil burning, how will anyone learn exactly what was the cause.

Maybe little more than deglaze is neccessary, maybe the actual hone only needs to be a couple diagonal grooves transversed by the rings and that as long as they are there, with the settling of the rings with the deglaze, they provide enough lubrication.
I don't know for sure, but my experiment get's me closer to finding the answer, at least to my own satisfaction. A bit like my heatshield experiment, that goes against all books, and all but a few anecdotal examples, from slightly zany characters

[vako]

which sanpaper should i use for honing. i need a bit more aggresive honing  for my block, for removing some of this scoring marks. i want this engine block to work normally for 30-40 kilometers http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=34017.15 i also need your advice about using these pistons in my old block (after rebore)? should i do it, or just hone my "new" block and use the pistons

[theman53]

You should just buy a ball hone and do it that way if your block is out of the car, which I think it was from the other thread. If not, search for Toby's write up on how to do it in car. This is a joke IMHO, where Toby has very good points to catch the metal and it is more of what should be done when attempting this in car.

[RabbitJockey]

Yeah seriously, a ball hole is not very expensive and ucan use it for years to come

[vako]

agree i should not try thing like that at home

could you look in my thread and give me an advice about my pistons ? i'm thinking on what to do for the whole evening , can't decide to leave the pistons in the block the came with, ro rebore my old block and put oversized pistons there.... (will it work well?) 

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

Anyone know where Mark(The Miser)UK hangout since not posting here anymore? Anyone in touch with him? He had a lot to contribute and I miss his posts.

[ORCoaster]

Maybe VWDieselparts.com?  He was over there initially.  Or at least was posting with Hagar when he was still alive.

[theman53]

Maybe VWDieselparts.com?  He was over there initially.  Or at least was posting with Hagar when he was still alive.

I believe he got pissed because I gave him a warning about picking on people and told him I would ban him for a week if he continued. The very next post he continued, so I banned him for a week and he hasn't been back. With threads like this one recommending to do stuff like this I really don't mind that he hasn't posted since his ban. He is allowed to come and post whenever he wants now, but I still will not put up with his nit picking.

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

Maybe VWDieselparts.com?  He was over there initially.  Or at least was posting with Hagar when he was still alive.

I believe he got pissed because I gave him a warning about picking on people and told him I would ban him for a week if he continued. The very next post he continued, so I banned him for a week and he hasn't been back. With threads like this one recommending to do stuff like this I really don't mind that he hasn't posted since his ban. He is allowed to come and post whenever he wants now, but I still will not put up with his nit picking.

Isn't this an open discussion forum? Should one attack someones else's ideas and call it crap if they don't like it? If Mark the miser had success in using a bottle hone, aren't there people interested in why he had success?

[ORCoaster]

I don't think it was so much that he disagreed or agreed with anyone but the way he voiced his opinion on it that was off color or out of line with the forum etiquette and rules.  I thought his ideas were good but the commo was a rub at times.  So he was warned, fair enough, but continued?  Or just decided to leave us and not bother anymore.

[vanbcguy]

Warned repeatedly, then given a temporary ban, then decided to leave us. 

Definitely wasn't about the ideas (though try convincing him he was wrong!!), it was about treating others poorly on the forum.  I do miss him though, we had a lot of very good technical discussions.

[theman53]

That was exactly it. Lots of people and I told him his ideas sucked as it is a mostly free and open discussion forum just the same as he could post his ideas. But he was being combative towards others and not just about his ideas, he was admittedly picking fights with other members just for fun. I had a PM conversation with him about it and he admitted to me that he was doing it to get a rise out of certain members. I was getting pm's reporting his behavior and I just wanted him to cool down a bit. Finally I publically warned him and then banned him a week.

If you think I would ban people just because they are stupid or have some off the wall ideas we all could be gone, myself included.

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

Well greetings all. It looks like I'm back... I don't really want to dwell on the past, but just for the record, I never read the single PM from the Mod.warning me of the 1 week ban [Just read it in fact!] dated 14th March 2012.
However, in reality I was blocked completely from entering the site for months, if not up until recently, for all I know, because I was only able to view the forum, after my computer broke late last year, and I changed it.
Fortunately I never erased any of my posts, so they are there to see I never bullied anyone, and  always tried to be helpful to all, whatever their experience/confidence in their projects, or problems; save those very few who were extremely rude, obtuse, and unconstructive on my threads.

There was one exception to this, and, I admit I became irritating to this person. I regret this, especially as amazingly, there was a time that we were friends,[or so I thought] and shared similar ideas...

Back to the topic of my thread... Was my experiment successful? You betcha  

I still burn unnoticeable amounts of oil. Economy on this 30 yr old engine is still 47 to 62mpg imp, which is as good as it's ever been.
Do I have any problems?
Yes I've been plagued with engine noise for years, and in trying to cure it recently, I broke the cam by driving 7 miles with the tensioner nut left undone, after a bunch of adjustments.
Luckily, I had a genuine German head to hand and just swapped in. Ironically, had I not been running my old timing belt which is nearly 2mm thinner than a new one, the replacement is so tight [snug] that it would not have jumped even with the mistake of slack tensioner.

Can I justify the use of the plastic bottle? Well the effect was more deglazing than honing, with minimal cross hatching [but clearly enough to bed the rings in] I was reading a book last week called " Tuning for speed" 1950's.Probably read by 'Vizzard' They talk about cutting an old piston in half across pin inserting a spring, adding 'flour paper' and a suitable handle ie a conn rod, and doing some manual abrading. So I didn't invent it, and back then there weren't plastic sprung bottles only glass ones...
Do I recommend this method? Well no, not particularly, but the knowledge of what can be achieved for the price of some $22  rings and emery paper has to increase our understanding of what works. 70,000 miles and counting

Last week I had the sump off and checked the shell bearings, almost hoping for the source of knocking to appear. Alas, just as 5 years ago, all bearings in spec using that 'Plastigauge' ranging from 2 to 3 thou. This is despite only ever running 30W 50 Multigrade oil, except for about a month when I changed the head and ran diesel spec 10W ...
I have had an inspiration and may be curing my engine noise next week when I have time to work on the engine again.

[ORCoaster]

If you think I would ban people just because they are stupid or have some off the wall ideas we all could be gone, myself included.

That would make for quite the forum now wouldn't it.  Ahh?  did you say something dorky?  Banned!  Did you admit to using the wrong tool in the wrong way with the wrong results?  Banned!  Did we just read that you messed up a fine piece of machinery because you lack the money to buy a proper manual for it.   YOUR'E OUTTA here.  

Membership = 1 the moderator?

Mark, welcome back!  The noise you hear, is it above the normal diesel tick?  I redid the rings a bit back and I have a strange new possibly lower end noise that I am trying to source out with the use of a long solid bar that I put my ear to, hoping to find the source.  Engine runs good and gets me 34 MPG US Gallons in the city.  Have not had it on the Highway since for the upper range.   

So you been lurking?  Or PM back?

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

Next week is exciting for me because I am hypothesizing that I will cure or greatly reduce my engine knock, and measure my 7 time reuse TTY bolts. I may even install my skew spray injector nozzles for a smileage experiment.[/color]