Building AAZ motor; meet Harley

[CrazyAndy]

id have rolled them pistons so all mid stroke..... cannot bend a valve that way...

X2 on that one  . Remember my busted lifter and bent valve scenario in my brand new KS head?

Sound like your'e all clear though - getti'n closer!

Cam wasn't tightened down for just that reason; I have not taken COMPLETE leave of my senses!   I'll have the cam locator on when I go to tighten that down, no worries.

Next stop: Intermediate shaft installation and oil leak test (?)

[CrazyAndy]

Got a lot of the ancillary stuff on the block on yesterday.  Got on the intermediate shaft, water pump, oil filter boss, fuel injectors and return lines, glow plugs from the old head, cylinder head water outlets, inner timing belt cover, and exhaust manifold.  Also torqued down the cam caps, since the cam is close enough to #1 top dead center to not cause the valves to contact the pistons.  The heater core water outlet barely went on, as the lower bolt hole was almost completely thread-stripped, but it's holding on with a long stud I found.  The only reason that I didn't mount more parts was that I ran out of hardware, as well as not having the tools to time the engine yet.  I also need to clock the turbocharger's center housing, as the oil drain line is hitting the manifold.  Yeah, I know I lied about tightening down the cam with the locator tool, but it's enough at TDC so as not to worry right now.





For more pictures, go to my driiive.com profile in my sig below!

That's all for now; CrazyAndy sez bye!

[8v-of-fury]

As far as physically timing the crank/pump/cam there are no special tools needed, a socoet to hold the pump and your eyeballs to set the crank and cam at tdc.

[theman53]

It is sad that a mod is telling people to not do it correctly, if that is what you do fine, but as this forum is supposed to be one of the best on VW diesels I would rather see the info shared to be as well. Almost as bad as that Hagar from the hillbilly forum that was too cheap to buy a Bentley manual and had to invent 50 ways to time/tune an injection pump. Funny how when he died they ended up scrapping most of his stuff because no one wanted to deal with his junk. You can be 5 degrees or more off and it still look OK and level on the cam but my tool still will not fit. For what Andy is doing it is close enough but when you actually put the belt on that can be a different story. Valve timing is as important to the way an engine runs as the IP timing...might be why you have to hillbilly tune your IP. It would feel better to me if you said "In my OPINION special tools are not needed or are only for people that think the Germans were not good engineers and didn't trust peoples eyes." Instead of "they aren't needed." Coming from a Mod a new member might think it is fine and ruin his engine or never understand why he is getting really high or really low MPG.

Also Andy, if you torqued the injectors that way I think you did it wrong. I would push it toward the head *as in the long part of the torque wrench on the TB side, but this could have been a pic only. Some may get away with it and call it ok, but I broke a head once doing this long ago before I knew about this forum.

[8v-of-fury]

LoL. The timing tools from Volkswagen allow play.. So no it is not crucial to the degree. I have seen engines running with loose belts and belt timing that was WAY off. With no engine damage to speak of afterwords.

If you cannot see level, well I am sorry. Put a piece of something flat in there if you wanna be super cautious. If it were so crucial the crank would have a lock too.

[theman53]

I am just saying step up your game.

BTW. My timing tools say to use feelers to take all slop out for no play. I can see level very well and it is very critical.

You can get them to run even up to a tooth off but even little advance and retard on the cam make differences on how the car runs and could be why some have issues using a gauge to time.

[CrazyAndy]

Would everybody chill the hell out?!? Don't worry, when the timing belt goes on I WILL have all the timing tools, lock plate, pump pin, and all.  I'll even get the pump dial gauge to tune the pump.  And Lucas, I did go back and check the torque on the injectors in the method you recommended; all injector bosses are undamaged and all injectors hols stock torque spec of 51 ft.-lbs. as per the Bentley manual for this engine.  Thank you for mentioning that. The cam was tightened down so the valve cover could be rested on the head to prevent airborne debris from entering the internals.  I also taped over all holes.

[Gizmoman]

Lookin' good Andy.

[JASGTi]

Purdy!

[libbydiesel]

I don't recall if the AHU Bentley calls for even thickness feeler gauges on either side of the cam lock but I am 100% certain that the ALH Bentley does.

[bbob203]

I dont see any reason not to use tools if you have them.. If your a good mechanic who is in a pinch and don't have the tools go for it. But i agree with lucas that people of authority aka mods should say the correct way to do it or add a disclaimer. At the same time though MOFO's should have a bentley anyhow.

[8v-of-fury]

I am just saying step up your game.

people of authority aka mods should say the correct way to do it or add a disclaimer.

It is all the same. I did not misconstrue the procedure to properly time a VW diesel engine.. I have seen people badly screw up a timing job USING THE LOCKS. Darwin's theory my friends, natural selection..

If you want to use all the recommended tools that is fine, go ahead it is advised that you do so. Without a crank lock, I don't see how it is so crucial to the 0.001" though. LoL If you even lean on the alternators fan blade while working, the crank will move while it sits at #1 TDC.. Done it first hand. So much so that the TDC mark was completely out of site, oh yeah realllll precise timing procedure.

Alas though my previous post was not of "hillbilly tuning" (which is a total b.s term btw) the timing, simply putting the belt on and getting everything to TDC. No locks required for that. Crank at TDC via timing hole, cam at TDC via verifying level at the end of the cam, pump at TDC via conformation of the small hole in the pulley lining up. Furthermore, whilst properly installing the belt and allowing the belts slack to be in the proper spot for tensioning.. one needs to spin the pumps pulley CW literally one full tooth so it takes the slack between it and the crank pulley. My pump lock fits the pulley and bracket to the 0.01" yet it is still needed to be done. Every single one I have ever done, I have done that way.

Disclaimer: You don't know me in person, my advice is worthless.. However, I do know what I am doing so take it as you please.

[libbydiesel]

Precise cam timing is obviously very important.  The cam is precisely timed when the crank can be rotated through a complete rotation going only clockwise to exactly fall on the correct TDC mark and at that time the cam slot is exactly parallel with the head.  If your method achieves that result then it works correctly.  If there is any deviation from that, then you should adjust your procedure.  If you can achieve that result easily and repeatedly then your procedure not only works, but is good.    I'm not sure what you are saying about the crank moving.  It doesn't seem to apply.  A crank lock would not help in getting to the desired result I stated above.  

Here's my procedure for easily setting the cam timing precisely and accurately every time.  I'm sure I've posted it before, but here it is reiterated.

Remove the cam sprocket.
Clean the cam sprocket and the taper on the end of the cam with brake clean.  
Place the crank at TDC.
Place the cam at TDC using the cam lock and install equal feeler gauges on either side so that it is both snug and parallel to the head.
Install the pump lock in the pump sprocket.  
Place the timing belt on the engine correctly around the crank, int shaft, tensioner and pump sprockets.  
Place the cam sprocket into the remaining part of the belt and put it onto the cam taper.
Install the bolt onto the cam sprocket until it is snug but the cam sprocket can still turn easily.
Remove the pump lock.
Rotate the crank counter clockwise a few degrees (maybe 10°) and then rotate back to TDC without going past - this step is of utmost importance as it places any belt slack at the tensioner.
Tension the belt using the correct VW tension measuring tool on a 1.6 or the spring loaded tensioner on a 1.9.
Check to be sure the crank has not moved - if it has, then you did not load the slack at the tensioner correctly.
Tighten cam bolt to 25 ft-lbs.
Remove cam lock and feeler gauges.
Hold the cam sprocket by hand (or use a pulley holder if you are weak) and torque to 45 ft-lbs (I know the book says 33 ft-lbs but IMO it is not enough).
Tap the cam bolt with a hammer and recheck the torque.  
Rotate the crank two full rotations back to TDC without going past and double-check the cam timing with the bar and feelers.  
    

[CRSMP5]

fyi.. stop peeing on bob's thread.. he would rather you pick on crabby paddy then see the bicker..

8v not to be offensive.. but a person of "authority" from time to time needs to watch how he words things on a technical issue as a newbie with 0 knowledge woudl think comming to a place like this that a mod would have "actual how to knowledge" and tend to use mods as a person to follow advice of.. from time to time i see where you fail to read the actual words people type and give bad info...

a 11mm deep well snap on socket i think fits the pump pully for a lock.. been way too long.. i can do with out lock but have a pin.. came with my idi tool set that napa made in the 80s.. the local snapon guy had the "close out of them" back in 92ish and was selling for 20 a pop.. dial gauge and all in nice box with laminite instrustion card... wish the part number did not fall off years ago.. else id try to find more.. imo perfect kit for all at that price.. and i know there a box truck hidden with them somewhere.. we owned all th eones our snap on guy had..

cam is simple.. file, bar stock, stack of feeler gauges even... 1.5-up to the pd it works.. not as easy on ahu (99.5+tdi) gotta remove the cam cap due to vac pump.. but still works..

crank timing.. need to be close on.. but as we spoke on phone.. you need the flywheel on as the crank sprocket normal marker is out of qestion due to crank snout mod 2x so no idea if it is indexed right..

lucas mentioned how a guy used a tube filled with water thru a injector hole... #4 glow plug would be a easy tap.... remove the glow plug.. find a rubber hose that fits in the glow plug hole tight.. hose needs to be transparent to see fluid in.. make a nice loop in the hose.. and let the fluid run to the bottom of the loop in the hose... theory is turning the crank to tdc the fluid would move away from the head.. then past tdc it would suck the fluid towards the head.. since you rpump is still off you can use glow plug #1.. but with pump on.. id sure try this on glow plug #4 but lots o frisk.. do not get any fluid in the hole else it can hydro lock.. but for the flywheel missing data.. best way i know to find tdc on the crank fo a diesel..

we should all have a dial gauge.. a baseline setting is nice.. for a guy that likes to adjust once running till best running.. ok.. i can live with that too... but getting a number at this point.. means that ok.. crap water pump leaks.. oil leaks.. what ever.. gotta pull belt.. i can set it to the setting now and not have to dick with turning it when running again.. i do not like loading the injector lines with the torque of twisting th pump myself.. lines crack.. and well unless proth are not cheap to buy if you crack it.. here in usa at least..

now lets move on...

so how is the crabby paddy today? any new flavors?

[Gizmoman]

Tension the belt using the correct VW tension measuring tool on a 1.6 or the spring loaded tensioner on a 1.9.

Hmm, My 1.9 doesn't have a spring loaded tensioner. There was a 1.6 IP mount from the PO and I replaced it with 1.9 brackets and proper covers, but the tensioner I bought was the same as the old one - not spring loaded.
Sorry to Bob, don't mean to steal your show