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AAZ 1st gen 4runner? - Now OM617 in my 2nd gen 4runner!
by
RadoTD
on 18 Feb, 2012 23:36
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Hello all. This isn't a post about "can it be done?" Yes, I know it can, I'm just hoping for some advice on what to do.
I need to build a truck, but I can't decide what exactly I want to do. The intent of the truck would be a light-moderate wheeling rig, but capable of going anywhere - hopefully South America at some point in it's life. Two friends of mine are building some pretty crazy machines that I'll have to keep up with, both big, both diesel. My two biggest criteria - SUV and diesel; 1 wire being a big bonus too
All along I've been thinking about a 60 series Land Cruiser; the bloated wagons. It would be great for long trips but just so huge and so hard to find a nice one. To get something without rust issues, I'll need to bring it up from Seattle or Portland, so that would involve inspections and having to travel a fair distance before even looking at anything. I can get a good price for the good 4cyl 3B diesel and unobtanium H55F 5sp tranny, so it could come together fairly easily. Spring over/highsteer/35's/rear locker/body armour would take care of the wheeling end of things. It would very quickly remove $8k from my bank account and be a moderate amount of work. It would be cool in the end, but I've been looking for months and haven't found a decent truck for a reasonable price.
The next thing I've been thinking is running my 2nd gen 4runner and putting the 3B cruiser diesel, transmission and FJ60 cruiser axles under the 4runner. I've never found anyone who's done such a thing and I'm not sure how well it would work out. In theory it would be great, but a fair bit of work, still a decent amount of money and not worth anything in the end. It would get the full leaf spring setup from the cruiser as well
I've gotten thinking though, what about a 1st gen 4runner and I drop the diesel from my Corrado in? 10K since I rebuilt it, easy swap, more than enough power for a light truck; it doesn't need to go fast. Very minimal wiring which I like and half the reason I'm excited about it is that I can get written off cars for cheap and I'd really like to throw a 1.8T into the Corrado. 4" lift on the 4runner, 33's, rear locker and it's trail ready. A bit on the small side for long trips, but a great truck in town/camping/etc. It could be put together for a very reasonable amount of money and would definitely have the best gas mileage of the three. Plus the VW heart would just be cool!
I suppose what I'm sort of wondering is what any of your opinions are. I'm more torn between the 2 4runners. I've got a good, solid 2nd gen and if the 3B and H55F actually fit reasonably well, that could be a good machine. The lack of modification putting the AAZ in a 1st gen would be pretty cool though. ACME adapter, some custom mounts and a bunch of funky little stuffs and I'm basically ready to drive. Anyone have any input?
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#1
by
bajacalal
on 19 Feb, 2012 02:34
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I would be hesitant to run any kind of IDI in a 4runner. The engine fits but I'm skeptical that you would get a drivable vehicle.
It's not just about power, but where that power is... VW engines tend to make power high up on the RPM spectrum, particularly compared to other diesels. That's just not ideal for offroad situations or in a heavy vehicle where you want that power closer to 2000 RPM. Just based on what wikipedia tells me, a 3b makes 160 ft/lbs at 2000 rpm. Of course, a Land Cruiser is heavier but the AAZ doesn't come close.
I like your trip idea though. It's something I've also wanted to do. And, Toyota diesels rule the roads in some of those countries. They are literally, like the national vehicle down there. You still see tons of Land Rovers... not in Mexico though.
I've wanted to build a VW/Samurai for a long time. Efficient and capable offroad vehicle. The VW engines work in them because they're light.
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#2
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 19 Feb, 2012 12:03
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I would be hesitant to run any kind of IDI in a 4runner. The engine fits but I'm skeptical that you would get a drivable vehicle.
It's not just about power, but where that power is... VW engines tend to make power high up on the RPM spectrum, particularly compared to other diesels. That's just not ideal for offroad situations or in a heavy vehicle where you want that power closer to 2000 RPM. Just based on what wikipedia tells me, a 3b makes 160 ft/lbs at 2000 rpm. Of course, a Land Cruiser is heavier but the AAZ doesn't come close.
I like your trip idea though. It's something I've also wanted to do. And, Toyota diesels rule the roads in some of those countries. They are literally, like the national vehicle down there. You still see tons of Land Rovers... not in Mexico though.
I've wanted to build a VW/Samurai for a long time. Efficient and capable offroad vehicle. The VW engines work in them because they're light.
i would use nothing less than a GTD5 in a 4runner.. i wouldnt consider using an AAZ or 1.6... DEFINITELY a TDI..
you have a 2gen runner tho, and its even MORE heavy than a 1gen runner..
and toyota diesels are junk..
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#3
by
Smokey Eddy
on 19 Feb, 2012 17:24
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This is fantastic. You're going to use the compound yes? from the Corrado?
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#4
by
RadoTD
on 20 Feb, 2012 00:41
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i would use nothing less than a GTD5 in a 4runner.. i wouldnt consider using an AAZ or 1.6... DEFINITELY a TDI..
you have a 2gen runner tho, and its even MORE heavy than a 1gen runner..
and toyota diesels are junk..
The AAZ would just be for a 1st gen, not in my current 2nd gen truck.
I've borrowed/driven a couple 1st gen 4runners, one with a 22R and the other a 22RE and those were both drivable, certainly faster than a 60 series cruiser with a 3B or 2H diesel, I'd even say a fresh 22RE would give a turbo'd 3B BJ60 a run for it's money!
Searching around it seems to have been done many times and works well. At ~25psi, I should be able to make a very reliable 150bhp which won't move an early 4runner in a huge rush, but it should be bearable?
And yes, Ed, it would be the compound turbo'd diesel from my Corrado!
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#5
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 20 Feb, 2012 13:23
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i would use nothing less than a GTD5 in a 4runner.. i wouldnt consider using an AAZ or 1.6... DEFINITELY a TDI..
you have a 2gen runner tho, and its even MORE heavy than a 1gen runner..
and toyota diesels are junk..
The AAZ would just be for a 1st gen, not in my current 2nd gen truck.
I've borrowed/driven a couple 1st gen 4runners, one with a 22R and the other a 22RE and those were both drivable, certainly faster than a 60 series cruiser with a 3B or 2H diesel, I'd even say a fresh 22RE would give a turbo'd 3B BJ60 a run for it's money!
Searching around it seems to have been done many times and works well. At ~25psi, I should be able to make a very reliable 150bhp which won't move an early 4runner in a huge rush, but it should be bearable?
And yes, Ed, it would be the compound turbo'd diesel from my Corrado!
comparing a BJ60 land cruiser to a 4runner is like apples n oranges..
22rs are gutless.. all of them.. after owning a V6 powered mk1 4runner, everything less seems anemic..
your mk2 runner has the infamous 3VZ, no? they are amazing engines.. mines been to 8000revs and back more times than i can count.. its really a wheelin machine.. just stick it in 1st gear, high range, and let er eat! everyone claims the 3VZ is junk, but ive not touched mine in 100k HARD MILES.. i just wish it got better economy..
a TDI would be really cool in one tho.. 150hp would rip in a runner.. thats what my V6 has for power, and it really goes compared to a 22r.. the TDI will have like twice the torque of a 3VZ tho..
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#6
by
bajacalal
on 20 Feb, 2012 18:37
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Why not just put a 2LT (not a 2LTii) in your 4Runner?
It sounds like you have access to a reasonably priced source for Japanese engines.
I know that is unimaginative because that was a factory option so it obviously fits but if you're looking for a reliable vehicle offroader with good economy it seems like a plan. The thing about a heavily modified vehicle is that there's a lot of uncertainty and unproven things which is fine for running around town or local trips but when you are talking about a long distance expedition, IMO it's better to go with something that's been proven for millions of kms in vehicles all over the world. It's less frustration to repair something when you don't require custom parts. Wasn't that Toyota pickup on Top Gear, the one they dunked in the ocean and dropped off a building like a 1984 Hilux with a 2l or 2LT?
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#7
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 20 Feb, 2012 19:29
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toyota diesels are JUNK tho.. thats the only problem.
no way i would ever swap in a junk engine like that..
all the 2L and 2LT engines ive seen were all junk. only seen one thats still running.. and i would be scared to death to turn these engines up past stock power levels.. they burn valves and warp heads at stock power levels, so think of what they would do while turned up..
they were all replaced with 22r's for a reason..
i would stick with VW power..
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#8
by
RadoTD
on 21 Feb, 2012 02:27
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comparing a BJ60 land cruiser to a 4runner is like apples n oranges..
22rs are gutless.. all of them.. after owning a V6 powered mk1 4runner, everything less seems anemic..
your mk2 runner has the infamous 3VZ, no? they are amazing engines.. mines been to 8000revs and back more times than i can count.. its really a wheelin machine.. just stick it in 1st gear, high range, and let er eat! everyone claims the 3VZ is junk, but ive not touched mine in 100k HARD MILES.. i just wish it got better economy..
a TDI would be really cool in one tho.. 150hp would rip in a runner.. thats what my V6 has for power, and it really goes compared to a 22r.. the TDI will have like twice the torque of a 3VZ tho..
Yeah, I've got a 3VZ. I have no real problems with it... it is a fairly smooth running motor and it's healthy, but they just don't seem like great motors. 4.3 or 5VZFE would be fun, but whatever I build is going to be a diesel.
I'm mostly with ROR about the Toyota diesels. A bunch of guys I work with are Toyota/Cruiser nuts. There's a good supply of Cruiser diesels available, and I think the 3B is a solid motor, but haven't heard many good things about any of the other Toyota diesels.
Right now there is a 93 Hilux Surf up for auction that I'm going to throw a lowball bid on and hope I win it. It's got the 2LT-II with 130k on it. That would be a cool swap, but they don't come up often and I think that one will go for too much. Plus if I win that, I can't put a 1.8T or 24V VR6 in my Corrado!
I'm actually reading up on it right now and that 2LT-II does swap right into a 22RE truck, even the motor mounts are factory. That could be very cool and would have great resell value as well... It's even running a Bosch VE pump, not like the 2LT-E's electronically controlled pump. Unfortunately, it's a good $600-1000 tow away as well :/
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#9
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 21 Feb, 2012 10:27
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comparing a BJ60 land cruiser to a 4runner is like apples n oranges..
22rs are gutless.. all of them.. after owning a V6 powered mk1 4runner, everything less seems anemic..
your mk2 runner has the infamous 3VZ, no? they are amazing engines.. mines been to 8000revs and back more times than i can count.. its really a wheelin machine.. just stick it in 1st gear, high range, and let er eat! everyone claims the 3VZ is junk, but ive not touched mine in 100k HARD MILES.. i just wish it got better economy..
a TDI would be really cool in one tho.. 150hp would rip in a runner.. thats what my V6 has for power, and it really goes compared to a 22r.. the TDI will have like twice the torque of a 3VZ tho..
Yeah, I've got a 3VZ. I have no real problems with it... it is a fairly smooth running motor and it's healthy, but they just don't seem like great motors. 4.3 or 5VZFE would be fun, but whatever I build is going to be a diesel.
I'm mostly with ROR about the Toyota diesels. A bunch of guys I work with are Toyota/Cruiser nuts. There's a good supply of Cruiser diesels available, and I think the 3B is a solid motor, but haven't heard many good things about any of the other Toyota diesels.
Right now there is a 93 Hilux Surf up for auction that I'm going to throw a lowball bid on and hope I win it. It's got the 2LT-II with 130k on it. That would be a cool swap, but they don't come up often and I think that one will go for too much. Plus if I win that, I can't put a 1.8T or 24V VR6 in my Corrado!
I'm actually reading up on it right now and that 2LT-II does swap right into a 22RE truck, even the motor mounts are factory. That could be very cool and would have great resell value as well... It's even running a Bosch VE pump, not like the 2LT-E's electronically controlled pump. Unfortunately, it's a good $600-1000 tow away as well :/
yea, the 4.3s HAUL ASS when installed in a toyota.. its like dropping a big block in one.
same with the 5VZ.. those things are just as amazing as the 4.3, but neither are diesel..
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#10
by
8v-of-fury
on 21 Feb, 2012 22:55
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If you would already be doing a crazy build here, I would lean towards an ALH. With nothing but a stage 2 chip, and .216 injectors, you will be at 150bhp, and over 250ft.lbs. I've driven Catlins car with this setup, and HOLY **** is it fast. Instant boost, and power till red line.
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#11
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 22 Feb, 2012 15:29
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If you would already be doing a crazy build here, I would lean towards an ALH. With nothing but a stage 2 chip, and .216 injectors, you will be at 150bhp, and over 250ft.lbs. I've driven Catlins car with this setup, and HOLY **** is it fast. Instant boost, and power till red line.
not like a 4.3 vortec V6 chevy tho..
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#12
by
8v-of-fury
on 22 Feb, 2012 20:15
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They made at the most stock 165hp and 235tq. ALH FOR THE WIN. Probably still do 40's for mpg, and more torque.
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#13
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 22 Feb, 2012 20:21
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They made at the most stock 165hp and 235tq. ALH FOR THE WIN. Probably still do 40's for mpg, and more torque.
a Vortec 4.3 V6? 165hp? your nuts.. the TRUE VORTEC V6 engines were rated at anywhere from 180-225hp..
you have any idea how easy it is to get more power than stock out of a vortec V6? way easy..
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#14
by
8v-of-fury
on 22 Feb, 2012 20:24
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They made at the most stock 165hp and 235tq. ALH FOR THE WIN. Probably still do 40's for mpg, and more torque.
a Vortec 4.3 V6? 165hp? your nuts.. the TRUE VORTEC V6 engines were rated at anywhere from 180-225hp..
you have any idea how easy it is to get more power than stock out of a vortec V6? way easy..
My bad I looked up a normal 262cid v6.. Still ok so what kinda torque does it make?
250 lb·ft (339 N·m) to 265 lb·ft (359 N·m).
Can be achieved and surpassed with the ALH, and still probably return 40+ mpg in the runner. Could the vortec do that?