charging/alternator thread*more confused than ever*

[8v-of-fury]

Jer, you DO know what DRLs are, right?

it means the headlights come on basically any time the car is moving..

it doesnt mean PARKING LIGHTS.. all cars VW ever made had parking lights.. but only 96 and newer got them in the good ol' U S of A..

so, Jer, do the headlights on your girlfriends car come on when you release the e-brake? thats how the early DRLs functioned..

remember, DRLs are headlights that are basically always on, any time the car thinks its moving, or running, not amber parking lights..

Is anyone that unintelligent?

Yes I know what DAYTIME RUNNING LIGHTS means. Yes I also know what parking lights are. No ebrake function on any of the mk2's
I've seen. Girlfriends car is a 90 Wolfsburg built Jetta, it has DRL. The headlights are always on when the key is. My gf's sister drives a 94 mexican Jetta, it too has DRL's.. but hers has the e-brake kill switch. The two cars i scrapped were mexican as well. 91 golf base model, not even power steering, na diesel. and another 90 Jetta TD. both had DRL.

Must just be Canadians being safer than you guys.? lol

[bajacalal]

If you have a Bentley it's on page 272, daytime running lights for Canada bound cars, from what looks like 1990 and up.

I question the effectiveness of DRLs, at least in this climate... the weather is just not inclement enough. In fact, I had the A/C on today. 

[R.O.R-2.0]

wow, sorry dude.. never knew about DRLs on canada cars..

damn canucks and your superior VWs..

[8v-of-fury]

wow, sorry dude.. never knew about DRLs on canada cars..

damn canucks and your superior VWs..

I wonder why they never came on the US cars?? seems weird to me. Less money I guess, easier to build.. blah blah

[ORCoaster]

They are a safety feature, given the terrible drivers up north VW thought they would help them out a bit and gave them those auto on lights.  The US got them later as the Safety Council looked around and said " Hey those guys got extra lights on their cars and we can see them a whole lot better because they do, best get some on cars here too." 

[dieselweasel]

wow, sorry dude.. never knew about DRLs on canada cars..

damn canucks and your superior VWs..

I wonder why they never came on the US cars?? seems weird to me. Less money I guess, easier to build.. blah blah

DRLs became mandatory in Canada starting with the 1990 m/y IIRC. 

[Smokey Eddy]

thanks for all the discussion guys.
Coming back to the topic for a moment I have an update.
I got a new battery and charged it at 2 amps. It held 13.2v. I added a ground from the mounting bolt of the alternator to the battery terminal.
I tightened the belt which I now see needs changing - brittle. At first when I turn the key on the voltage dropped to 12.3v. Started just fine even in the cold and the voltage came up to 12.5v.
Slightly puzzled I put the charger back on it and set it to 20 amps. It said the battery was discharged  at 60%... after about 2 minutes with the car running and the charger on it the alternator kicked in and it shot to 14.2v in about 30 seconds. I turned the charger off and it held steady at 14.23v.
Seems like the alternator needs a relatively high voltage to spark that charging cycle... any tips on making sure it sees that 12.6v even after cycling the glow plugs and running a small lift pump for that time?

[Smokey Eddy]

I would also like to add that the addition of the independant grounding of the alternator straight to the battery with some pretty thick gauge welding wire has eliminated the dim battery glow/pulse in the dash... but the dim glowing could have also been a result of the alternator not charging.

[ORCoaster]

Revving the engine doesn't give the alternator enough juice to fire up the charging circuit eh?  Well I may be time to rebuilt the alternator.  Or have a second small battery on line with a switch inside and once the engine is running you hit the switch giving the extra volts needed to trip the charging circuit.  Much like you did with the charger deal.   But I would be looking at why is the extra voltage needed.  Some contacts sticking in the alternator?  A circuit board out of whack?  Why does it need 13 volts to flip that over to charge.  Mine doesn't. 

I still need an extra fat wire from battery negative to ground on the alternator to keep that flicker at bay.  Thanks for reminding me on that one. 

[8v-of-fury]

Or have a second small battery on line with a switch inside and once the engine is running you hit the switch giving the extra volts needed to trip the charging circuit. Why does it need 13 volts to flip that over to charge.  Mine doesn't. 

I thought the same with the extra battery.. but that would be foolish.

IIRC, his alt is brand new. So is the battery now. No battery should show above 12.2-3 after starting the vehicle, should it?! why does his system demand the unobtainable?!

[Smokey Eddy]

Yes Jeremy, the alternator has 40km on it (during which it did nothing). The battery has 0km on it . I put it in the car yesterday after charging it at 2amps (even though it was already charged i made sure it was really good n proper charged).

I could do the inline battery idea. I could even make a battery pack out of ten 1.5v recharchables to make 15V and just spark it with a momentary switch.
But I would prefer to get to the root of the problem.

I need (would appreciate) someone to explain to me when the alternator charges? what tells it to charge exactly? how does it work? is it the blue wire that tells it to charge?
as far as i can tell that blue wire is just a possitive battery wire when the key is on.
And why does my battery light not come on if it's not charging? and does a voltage below 14v mean it's not charging?

The battery now reads 12.45 not running.

Footnote: the car is currently stuck in the snow and i need a couple buddies to help me push it out of the hole it's in. The car has sat while about a meter and a half of snow (accumulatively) has fallen on and around it. I keep clearing the snow off so i can get in it and open the hood n junk but i can't seem to drive it out. i WISH all VW's had quattro...

[dieselweasel]

I need (would appreciate) someone to explain to me when the alternator charges? what tells it to charge exactly? how does it work? is it the blue wire that tells it to charge?
as far as i can tell that blue wire is just a possitive battery wire when the key is on.
And why does my battery light not come on if it's not charging? and does a voltage below 14v mean it's not charging?

-when you turn the key to the on position, current flows through the charge light and on to the alt. regulator (via the blue wire), which provides field current or "tells it to charge"
-the light turns on b/c the d+ terminal (blue wire) is grounded until the alternator begins to charge, at which point the light goes out due to battery voltage on each side of the light
-if the battery light does not come on when the alternator is not charging, there is a problem either in the light circuit or the regulator.

[ORCoaster]

So assuming the alternator is good and the battery is full charged should he be sourcing a problem with the light circuit? 

He says the light does or does not come on with the key?  It should come on and once the engine revs up a bit the alternator starts charging.  My voltage gauge hovers around 13.2 when I drive.  It will pull all the way down to 10 after the glows are on and I hit the starter.  Once running it jumps right up.  Never really fluxes even with lights or heater fan or defroster thrown into the mix.  Amp gauge flutters a bit but not much.

[Smokey Eddy]

Okay I just got some more info.

With the key ON the light is ON.
When running the light is either completely off or slightly dim/pulsing. Reving the engine at this point makes the light grow very bright (full brightness) and then die down again and pulse.

When connected to my charger (turned off) and running, the voltage slowly drops/hovers around 11.5-11.9v.
I turn on my charger at 20 amps and watch the multimeter. It goes straight to 12.00.
after sitting at 12.00 for about 60 seconds it will then become 12.02... pause 12.03... less of a pause 12.04... once at 12.1 it is a tenth every second 12.2, 12.3 then really jumps in about 2-3 seconds to 15.00v and the battery light in the dash is now still dimly glowing or off entirely and the engine is idling faster (probably because of my lift pump seeing the high voltage).
I turn the charger off but leave it connected and the voltage drops immediately to 14.23-14.24v.
Disconnect the thing entirely still sits around 14.23 and the battery light is sometimes glowing (im refraining from saying on because it's never solid) sometimes not...


I can get the alternator to start working but only with the help of the battery charger.
Sounds to me like it's this light circuit. Could i have a cracked fuse? or ... a relay not working properly or do i need a whole new gauge cluster  ($$$)


I also just read these threads after posting this above post ^
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=29314.15
http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?5290185-The-infamous-blue-exciter-wire
I've checked the post that the blue wire is connected to numerous times. It always shows the exact voltage that i get across the battery when the car is running.
Is there some way of lowering the required voltage by the alternator to start charging? because as far as I can tell as soon as it see's a voltage over 12.3 (or something very close to that) it starts charging on it's own.
If there was a problem with the battery light circuit wouldn't it not work at all? especially after i disconnect the charger? This question is almost rhetorical as there is obviously a problem with it because the light is glowing dimly while running.

[Smokey Eddy]

I have a feeling the other end of the blue wire circuit is not grounding correctly/easily. I work in the morning and it's now 1:30am so I should go to sleep. I'll unplug the gauge cluster tomorrow and see how much resistance i get on the blue wire grounding to the start ground up front or ... something like that. Perhaps I need to add an independant ground going from the cluster to the battery. I already ran a ground from the battery to the dash for the cluster of grounds found under/behind the fuse box panel.