charging/alternator thread*more confused than ever*

[Smokey Eddy]

I'm with theman on this.  Take it to a shop and have them hook up that great big heater element to it and see what kind of guts this battery has.  My guess is that it will not hold up long.  Takes a charge but won't keep it.  The cells are gone.  

Buy a new battery.

Okay, so the problem is then (im trying to be sure about the root of my charging problem here so please bare with my persistance) the battery drops below, even with the alternator juicing it, the voltage required to tell the alternator to continue to charge?

I'm convinced i need a dedicated alternator ground/more grounding from the dashboard. The battery light comes on and off in pulsing waves. Did i mention that? I'm going to try a dedicated  ground (not a bad idea anyways) and see if it charges then.
New batteries are expensive if they are not needed. I can't exactly go to a shop im living on a mountain ski resort. But I can go with a friend to buy a cable to ground the alternator to the battery.

[Smokey Eddy]

bump?

[ORCoaster]

Smokey,  Your status is: I can't exactly go to a shop im living on a mountain ski resort.

I take it you are not there for use of the resort, in your Land Rover with two girls, one on each arm. 

More like you are chained to the lift as the operator watching them all go by.  And without a decent battery you are also stuck there.  So, can you get your hands on an amp meter and see what that alternator is doing work wise?  Kind of sounds like both sides of the charging system are messed up.  No good storage in the battery and no good charging when running.  So, now  you can't start it and keep it going off the alternator.

Hate to say this but in your situation I would be looking to take both parts to town and have them tested.  You are going to have to leave sometime, the snow is going to melt in a couple months.  Start making arrangements.  I think you have two funerals on those parts.

[Smokey Eddy]

The alternator is literally brand new... I haven't driven the car with it on anywhere.
I got a ride to town and had my battery tested and it tested as "good" on a load test but any kind of load it drops to 12.4 volts at full charge. I had my warranty papers so I just told them after an hour of bickering I wanted a new battery and eventually got it. My charger said it was 75% charged so I trickled it at 2 amps and it was fully charged after about 2 hours.
I'm going to see if I can get the belt tighter, add a dedicated ground I have the wire for now (and eyelets), and see if it will finally charge its self.
Could the alternator be charging but I still get less than 13v coming out of it?

[Smokey Eddy]

And yes I work on the mountain but not as a lifty :p
I appreciate the comments. Thank-you for reading.

Just a side note; on the alternator, I get 6v at the red wire and the battery voltage at the blue wire. Is this normal?

If I fully charge it I can drive to town and back in the day light and a shop says they can test everything for $25.

[8v-of-fury]

If I fully charge it I can drive to town and back in the day light and a shop says they can test everything for $25.

Yes do this, unplug your headlights (daytime why have them on?) and don't use anything electrical. Beauty of a Mk1, is I don't have to unplug my headlights when alts fail. lol

[Smokey Eddy]

So i took the battery to canadian tire with my warranty papers to have it "tested" so they cold say it's bad and give me a new one.
I brought it fully charged (from the night before) and their machine said it was discharged. I waited an hour while it "charged" on their machine and eventually (before the progress bar had reached the end point) it spits out a piece of paper saying "690 cranking amps, 12.2V, battery status:good"
I gave the guy a blank stare and said "i installed a brand new bosche alternator that specifically says the battery needs to hold at least 12.6 volts..."
He looks at me empathetically and says
"yeah... that voltage seems a little low but your car will still start with it..."

"Yes, but what good is a running car with no charging system... it needs to see 12.6 to even start to charge..."

"well how about you take this one back [to the ski resort an hour away] and if it gives you trouble again and we'll swap it"

"okay, well i'll be here tomorrow. I can already tell you that with 100% confidence... will you be here tomorrow to help me?"

"... I'll just give you a new battery"

"Thank you"

This one now has held 13.4 for 3 days straight and my charger gives it a 95% charge and when i set it to charge at 2 amps it fully tops it up in about 5 minutes. Will put it in the car tomorrow and i should hopefully see charging volts coming out of the alternator!
If not this post will be promptly followed by a desperate, crying, sad, frustrated post so... consider this fair warning.

[ORCoaster]

No Whiners Allowed

Sounds like you may be on your way to success with this trouble.  Now if the battery didn't fubar the alternator all will be good.  

I didn't think it was taking a charge like it should.  12.2 and then throw some of that cold you have on it, might end up 9.0 volts and that is not going to crank a diesel over.

[8v-of-fury]

I find that even a slightly weak battery is just hell to start.. Damn 400psi! lmao

[R.O.R-2.0]

If I fully charge it I can drive to town and back in the day light and a shop says they can test everything for $25.

Yes do this, unplug your headlights (daytime why have them on?) and don't use anything electrical. Beauty of a Mk1, is I don't have to unplug my headlights when alts fail. lol

why would you have to un-plug them on a mk2? they dont come on when the e-brake goes off like the mk3 cars..

[8v-of-fury]

Oh, I forgot the mk2's had daytime running lights. lol

[smutts]

Batteries are a right royal pain in the arse sometimes.

Some pointers for testing.

If you can see inside and.....
   There are nice plates, chocolate brown, and battleship grey, and covered in liquid, things might be good.
   If instead of the above, it looks like a mess of crumpled paper thin plates, the battery is worn out.
   If dry, the charging system might have cooked the battery, distilled water might save it, but unlikely, dead battery and deranged voltage regulator.
Note, dry plates are dangerous as they can spark and explode the battery.
   
   Charge the battery on a battery charger for a few hours then let it rest for ten minutes, if you get less than 12.5v and more like 10.5v you have a shorted cell, the car might start but will burn up the alternator trying to get it up to 14.4v.
   Good charging system will see 14.4v across the battery with the engine running and no higher.
   
   Batteries do wear out.
   A battery that is discharged, say 12v or less is empty, once charging with a slow battery charger, the longer it takes for the battery to get over 14.4v the better, as that is when it is full. Once all the lead and sulphate have been electroplated out, the next substance to get electroplated is the oxygen and hydrogen in the water, this is why the voltage rises when the cells start bubbling. After charging The battery voltage slowly drops as these bubbles float off the plates.
 
   
   
 

[bajacalal]

Oh, I forgot the mk2's had daytime running lights. lol

They did?

I thought it was like 1996 and up, at least here in the states... unless Canada got it earlier, which would make sense.

[8v-of-fury]

Oh, I forgot the mk2's had daytime running lights. lol

They did?

I thought it was like 1996 and up, at least here in the states... unless Canada got it earlier, which would make sense.

Every late 80's vw i've seen has DRL. I know my gf's 90 has them, and so did the 91 golf and 90 jetta i scrapped.

[R.O.R-2.0]

Oh, I forgot the mk2's had daytime running lights. lol

They did?

I thought it was like 1996 and up, at least here in the states... unless Canada got it earlier, which would make sense.

Every late 80's vw i've seen has DRL. I know my gf's 90 has them, and so did the 91 golf and 90 jetta i scrapped.

only 96 and newer mk3s have them in the states.. nothing mk2 ever got DRLs AFAIK.. and ive even seen some early 96 jettas WITHOUT DRLs..

nothing that i have layed hands on atleast.. and ive worked on LOTS of old VWs.

Jer, you DO know what DRLs are, right?

it means the headlights come on basically any time the car is moving..

it doesnt mean PARKING LIGHTS.. all cars VW ever made had parking lights.. but only 96 and newer got them in the good ol' U S of A..

NONE of my mk2 cars have ever had DRLs.. and my wiring diagrams dont even show it as an option, and my wiring diagrams are very thorough.. they show canada only options, mexico only options, USA only options, and not once have i ever seen mention of DRLs on a mk2 VW..

those 3 mk2s you mention must be the only ones on the planet with DRLs..

so, Jer, do the headlights on your girlfriends car come on when you release the e-brake? thats how the early DRLs functioned..

remember, DRLs are headlights that are basically always on, any time the car thinks its moving, or running, not amber parking lights..