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Internal Pressure - Different specs
by
anto
on 22 Jan, 2012 13:42
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Ive seen various posts regarding internal pressure for our bosch pumps;
1000rpm engine - 43.5psi
2000rpm engine - 75.4psi
These are apparently the optimum pressures for efficient operation of the dynamic advance system.
My question is; are these figures for all bosch ve pumps? I know these figures are for VW Golfs etc but will they apply to my Peugeot 306?
Another question; ive set my pressure at 1000rpm at 43.5psi but it only reaches mid 60psi when getting to 2000rpm. Is there a reason for this? A defect in some part of the pump?
Thanks,
Anton
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#1
by
ORCoaster
on 22 Jan, 2012 17:07
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Anton, I think most of the VE pumps follow those specs so I wouldn't think they would be too far off for your car.
If you have 43 lbs @ 1000 rpm and then only 60 at the higher revs I would be thinking of worn pump internals. Do a test with thicker fuel. Dissolve about 2-4 oz of paraffin wax into a gallon of diesel. Might have to warm it up at this time of year to do that. Then run the car off that fuel directly like we do for a bottle feed operation. Inlet and outlet lines to the same source. Let that cycle for a while then check the pressures. I would expect higher idle for sure and if you have worn internals this should jump that figure as well.
Listen to how it runs on that thicker fatter fuel. More like the way it was designed. You can pour the extra waxy fuel into the tank and burn it.
Keep us posted. DAS
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#2
by
RabbitJockey
on 22 Jan, 2012 17:13
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Could be the relief valve came apart like happens on tdis look up the keystone mod
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#3
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 22 Jan, 2012 17:50
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Ive seen various posts regarding internal pressure for our bosch pumps;
1000rpm engine - 43.5psi
2000rpm engine - 75.4psi
These are apparently the optimum pressures for efficient operation of the dynamic advance system.
My question is; are these figures for all bosch ve pumps? I know these figures are for VW Golfs etc but will they apply to my Peugeot 306?
Another question; ive set my pressure at 1000rpm at 43.5psi but it only reaches mid 60psi when getting to 2000rpm. Is there a reason for this? A defect in some part of the pump?
Thanks,
Anton
If your pump is a 1.6TD pump, then your figures are perfectly fine, correspond with the SAE's 23 pump average spec and are better than most.
The official figures that you have found correspond to the Yellow-dot pump.
If you have any issues , then the internal pressure of the pump
is not one of them. 
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#4
by
anto
on 23 Jan, 2012 02:41
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Mark it is a pump from a 1.9 turbo diesel peugeot 306. Would this alter your original answer?
Also what is SAE?
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#5
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 23 Jan, 2012 05:02
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Mark it is a pump from a 1.9 turbo diesel peugeot 306. Would this alter your original answer?
Also what is SAE?
Stamped Adressed Envelope...
or in America; The Society of Automobile Engineers.
It's a group that published research. SAE 820441 Is one of the classic ones on the VWTD, dating back to 1982.
I suspect that my first guess is correct in that your pump fairly well mirrors the 1.8TD specs.
Can you post any of the ID numbers, and I'll see if I can identify it's rated speed, if not clear.
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#6
by
anto
on 23 Jan, 2012 07:08
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Il have looksee tonight.
Its a mish mash of pumps as I added an 11mm head to it. Could that affect advance?
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#7
by
anto
on 24 Jan, 2012 13:12
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Mark here are the numbers for my bosch pump;
0 460 494 370
It was originally a 9mm pump as you can see. Ive since swapped in an 11mm pump head, plunger and collar from a ford transit.
Camplate is Peugeot 306, cant remember what the return springs are but the internal pressure valve is still Peugeot 306.
Ive also increased the advance piston travel by shaving a few mm from the advance piston.
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#8
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 24 Jan, 2012 14:54
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Mark here are the numbers for my bosch pump;
0 460 494 370
It was originally a 9mm pump as you can see. Ive since swapped in an 11mm pump head, plunger and collar from a ford transit.
Camplate is Peugeot 306, cant remember what the return springs are but the internal pressure valve is still Peugeot 306.
Ive also increased the advance piston travel by shaving a few mm from the advance piston.
This is what I've found out... 0 460 494 370 96226013 VE4/9F2250R445-3 FIAT/PEUGEOT D8B/D8C
The basic pump is rated to 4500crank rpm stock. This is the same as used in most of the 1.6 mk2 VW Audi range up to the intercooled stuff. I'd guess that the dynamic advance rate is the same.
The Ford 11mm stuff I can't see on my list, but the Ford 10mm pumps are all rated at between 3600 and 4200 rpm (crank) Not sure if that implies that an 11mm plunger would then have an even slower rating which might mean that the injection cam a little steep for fast running.
Do you know of the max plunger lift on one of those 11mm pumps? It looks like many Ford 9mm pumps are rated to 4800rpm (crank)
Someone else will know better than I for sure
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#9
by
anto
on 25 Jan, 2012 10:10
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Surely plunger lift will not have changed as i am using the Peugeot camplate?
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#10
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 25 Jan, 2012 14:00
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Surely plunger lift will not have changed as i am using the Peugeot camplate?
Then you are correct.
Do you know the lift on the Peugeot? A standard 1.6 is 2.3mm.
If the same then, together with the readings of yours, I'd say stock performance the same,and functioning correctly [before your swap]
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#11
by
anto
on 25 Jan, 2012 14:29
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Not sure what the standard lift is Mark.
Can i measure it through the timing hole or measure it off the camplate?
How would the lift effect the advance system?
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#12
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 25 Jan, 2012 16:46
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Not sure what the standard lift is Mark.
Can i measure it through the timing hole or measure it off the camplate?
How would the lift effect the advance system?
Through the timing hole.
Well it doesnt exactly,although higher lift cams have faster injection rate don't they, whch may affect ideal timing settings.
But my main point is if all the measurable parmeters are the same, as the VWTD pumps then assuming the 306 is of similar weight to the Jettas etc, then dynamic advance may well be the same. and your figures not wrong, and 'low' as you thought.
What should pump pressures be, if not the same? Unless you have some Bosch figures. Those ones you quoted seem to be from the somewhat unique 107 Yellow dot pump from a 1980 mk1 Golf from the USA...