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Need help with timing belt
by
firestorm13666
on 06 Feb, 2006 17:21
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The car was 161,000 miles on it.It is a 86 Golf 1.6N/A.I got it used so i have no clue what has been done to it.I want to drive it and all but i do not want to timing belt to brake on me nor to i have the money to repair it if it does brake.Also i does have the money fot the VW tools to chage it so what are my opions for chaging the belt with out geting the VW tools?Thanks for any and all help.I just to not want to kill this care before i really get to drive it.
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#1
by
wyldman
on 06 Feb, 2006 17:47
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The belt isn't too hard.The info is all over the web,or in the manuals on how to do it.
You can use a piece of scrap flat steel to line up the cam,and a socket to line up and hold the pump.Mark everything before you take it off,so you have something to line it up with afterwards just in case.
It's kinda getto,but you can pry the timing belt tensioner back without the special tool,just use a prybar (carefully).
Once done,take it to a shop and have them set the pump timing if you think it needs it.
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#2
by
tylernt
on 06 Feb, 2006 18:01
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Option A: No tools. I have done this twice. It's kind of a pain but it works. The cam and crank will stay at TDC pretty well but the IP likes to move either direction. Install the new belt on the crank sprocket and intermediate shaft pulley, then just put the belt on the edge of the cam and IP sprockets, ensuring the mark on the IP sprocket stays lined up with the mark you made on the IP bracket before you took the old belt off. It helps if you are a patient man and have three hands, but like I said, I have done it. Once everything is lined up and everything is still at TDC work the belt fully onto the sprockets.
Option B: Improvised tools. I haven't tried this but I'm sure it helps. Find a deep socket the right size and use it to lock the IP through one of the small sprocket holes and the hole in the bracket. Then use a piece of flatstock or other material to lock the cam in place via the slot in the end of the cam on the drivers side. Shim with feeler gauges if necessary.
To tension the belt, I use two allen keys stuck in the holes in the tensioner. If you rotate the top one so that it hits the lower one, you can then use them to tighten up the tensioner. A tiny cheater pipe is useful to get leverage. Expect to bend the crap out of your allen keys, though.
NOW, before starting the engine, turn the crank over by hand 4 complete revolutions (remove the glow plugs to make this easy) and check that everything is still at TDC and that your pistons are not hitting your valves. You should be able to twist your belt between IP and cam not quite 45 degrees if the tension is correct.
It's recommended that you re-time the IP after a timing belt change (that's the part that requires the $100 dial gauge and adapters), but it is not strictly necessary. The new belt is a little tighter (hasn't stretched yet) but the timing should not be off by much.
Also, many here recommend removing the cam sprocket and resetting it, and with good reason, but I have never done this and I have been lucky so far after 3 belts on 2 different cars.
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#3
by
chrissev
on 06 Feb, 2006 19:37
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Option A: No tools. I have done this twice. It's kind of a pain but it works. The cam and crank will stay at TDC pretty well but the IP likes to move either direction. Install the new belt on the crank sprocket and intermediate shaft pulley, then just put the belt on the edge of the cam and IP sprockets, ensuring the mark on the IP sprocket stays lined up with the mark you made on the IP bracket before you took the old belt off. It helps if you are a patient man and have three hands, but like I said, I have done it. Once everything is lined up and everything is still at TDC work the belt fully onto the sprockets.
Option B: Improvised tools. I haven't tried this but I'm sure it helps. Find a deep socket the right size and use it to lock the IP through one of the small sprocket holes and the hole in the bracket. Then use a piece of flatstock or other material to lock the cam in place via the slot in the end of the cam on the drivers side. Shim with feeler gauges if necessary.
To tension the belt, I use two allen keys stuck in the holes in the tensioner. If you rotate the top one so that it hits the lower one, you can then use them to tighten up the tensioner. A tiny cheater pipe is useful to get leverage. Expect to bend the crap out of your allen keys, though.
NOW, before starting the engine, turn the crank over by hand 4 complete revolutions (remove the glow plugs to make this easy) and check that everything is still at TDC and that your pistons are not hitting your valves. You should be able to twist your belt between IP and cam not quite 45 degrees if the tension is correct.
It's recommended that you re-time the IP after a timing belt change (that's the part that requires the $100 dial gauge and adapters), but it is not strictly necessary. The new belt is a little tighter (hasn't stretched yet) but the timing should not be off by much.
Also, many here recommend removing the cam sprocket and resetting it, and with good reason, but I have never done this and I have been lucky so far after 3 belts on 2 different cars.
best thing to use for the tensioner is a pair of needle nose pliers with a curved nose. Put the two ends in the tensioner and twist. I do it every time, never bought the special tensioner tool. Tension the belt till you can just turn it 45 degrees with your thumb and pointer finger, but no further. If you are a strong person with heavy hands, the rule is if your girlfriend or wife can just turn it 45 degrees but no further as stated above it is correctly tensioned (ie not a hard turn, just a light one). Also if you can remove the cam bolt and knock the cam pulley off the taper lock. It makes it a lot easier to get the belt on if you only have to worry about lining up two pulleys (crank and IP). With the IP you need to push it back a bit to get it right at TDC (you can feel TDC with the IP because it will have lots of pressure, then it will release when you get right past TDC). With the crank there is a notch you line up with the pointer in the bellhousing. You want the notch with the little "0" beside it, the other one is 180 degrees off (yes, there are two notches, doesn't VW like to make your life difficult?)
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#4
by
firestorm13666
on 07 Feb, 2006 10:09
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Thanks for the helps guys.Anyone eles got any tips i want to get as much info form as many people as i can before i do this thanks!
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#5
by
bryanbryan89x
on 07 Feb, 2006 12:32
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#6
by
firestorm13666
on 07 Feb, 2006 19:32
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Has anyone uesed the timing belt Parts#CD-43 form AutoZone is it the right belt for my 1.6N/A?Also my question was more along the lines of what tools would i use or what i could substude for them?Thanks
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#7
by
watsongs
on 09 Feb, 2006 19:26
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I just changed out my tensioner with a recent head gasket. The new tensioner had those little holes - what a paim, considering the old one's center protruded about equal to the inside, and featured a hex body. You simply put a crescent wrench on the hex, rotated it until correct tension was achieved, and then tightened the nut.
I didn't have anything that fit the holes, so I took a 24" bar clamp and put one end on the tensioner and the other on the IP sprocket. I tightened it up until the belt was where I wanted it, and tightened the nut. Voila - ghetto, but voila.
Speaking of ghetto, I also used the tire jack and a block of 2x4 to tighten the alternator - that way I could take my time to tighten the bolts. Worked very well.
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#8
by
tylernt
on 09 Feb, 2006 19:49
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Has anyone uesed the timing belt Parts#CD-43 form AutoZone is it the right belt for my 1.6N/A?
Autozone timing belts scare me. For something as critical as a timing belt (broken belt = new engine), I would only buy German or VW parts. There are plenty of other places to cheap out.
the old one's center protruded about equal to the inside, and featured a hex body. You simply put a crescent wrench on the hex, rotated it until correct tension was achieved, and then tightened the nut.
I agree! For tensioning the holes version, though, I just used two little allen keys stuck in the holes. You rotate one until it hits the other then I can get just barely enough grip on the keys and the tensioner itself to get enough tension on the belt.
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#9
by
watsongs
on 09 Feb, 2006 20:28
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next time, try the bar clamp trick!
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#10
by
bhtooefr
on 10 Feb, 2006 08:46
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Here's the parts I used for my 1.6NA's (engine code ME) TB job:
026 198 025 A :Valve Cover Gasket
068 109 119 E :Timing Belt
068 109 243 F :Tensioner
068 103 085 E :Cam Seal
N 014 707 4 (4 Qty) :Crankshaft Pulley Bolts if needed M8x15 hex socket head
037 121 010 C :Water Pump
I also ordered a V-Belt that is not actually usable with my car. Expect to pay approximately $120 for all of that.
MOGolf (on the TDIClub forums) is in Pataskala, and has done an A2 before. (Mine.)
He has all of the tools except for the dial gauge. You'll need to buy a VW 2066 adaptor, and Harbor Freight sells a digital one that looks to be much easier to use than the traditional dial gauge for $14.
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#11
by
tylernt
on 10 Feb, 2006 09:04
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Harbor Freight sells a digital one that looks to be much easier to use than the traditional dial gauge for $14.
Aieee! You had to tell me that *after* I paid $95 for an analog gauge. :shock:
Ah well I guess I should learn to check Harbor first... :lol:
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#12
by
bhtooefr
on 10 Feb, 2006 09:09
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They also had an analog one for like $7
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#13
by
firestorm13666
on 10 Feb, 2006 09:49
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Thanks for all the help guys.What can i use to lock the IP?Also where can i get the Ip timing tool with out a gauge?
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#14
by
bhtooefr
on 10 Feb, 2006 10:13
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The VW 2066 adaptor? That's an eBay thing.