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#15
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 22 Dec, 2011 12:48
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It would be nice to re-use the head bolts again. Somebody's gotten rich off of all the sets I've bought. Many previous discussions say no,no,no. I believe them. Bottom line is, do you want to chance a blown gasket for a couple of bucks? The labor alone makes this a no brainer.
if they have only been used once, i will re-use them. but i ALWAYS measure toe bolts before using them. the head bolts i put back in my car were used, and stretched to ~5.040..
i wont re-use them next time.. i need to order up a couple sets of 12mm head bolts to have on hand. my local parts store has 11mm bolts on hand, but not 12s..
i figured i might as well re-use the bolts, because i re-used the head gasket also..
THIS IS NOT COMMON PRACTICE FOR ME!! i usually NEVER re-use items like this..
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#16
by
rabbitman
on 22 Dec, 2011 12:55
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I have ARP head studs already. The items in question are the rod bolts, ARP rod bolts will cost about $100.
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#17
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 22 Dec, 2011 13:03
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I have ARP head studs already. The items in question are the rod bolts, ARP rod bolts will cost about $100.
how much are new TTY bolts? probably not too cheap either?
just think of it, the ARP bolts, they are the last rod bolts you will need to buy. you get what you pay for..
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#18
by
rabbitman
on 22 Dec, 2011 15:05
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I haven't priced stock rod bolts but from what I've read they're not much cheaper.
I didn't want this rering (or the whole car for that matter) to cost more than it already has, I think it's still under $1000 NOT counting my time. I keep wanting to get to drive it around and see how it is before spending lots more on it but so far it isn't happening that way.
I did reuse the rod bolts on my dad's golf gasser and it's been fine, I think the rods/pistons are lighter on a gasser though.
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#19
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 23 Dec, 2011 10:06
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I haven't priced stock rod bolts but from what I've read they're not much cheaper.
I didn't want this rering (or the whole car for that matter) to cost more than it already has, I think it's still under $1000 NOT counting my time. I keep wanting to get to drive it around and see how it is before spending lots more on it but so far it isn't happening that way.
I did reuse the rod bolts on my dad's golf gasser and it's been fine, I think the rods/pistons are lighter on a gasser though.
gasser piston weighs like 1/2 or 1/3 of a diesel piston.
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#20
by
maxfax
on 23 Dec, 2011 17:41
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I've gotten a couple sets of the ARP rod studs on ebay for about $60 shipped.. One downfall of the ARP's is that you should have the rods checked for sizing after installing.. Out of 5 sets, I've only ever had one rod distort after pressing them in.. But it only would have taken that one to really make for a bad day, especially since it was on my engine...
If you know that this would only be their second use, and it's a budget build reuse them.. Honestly the first dozen of these diesels I took apart and put together I didn't even know you were to replace the studs (alldata makes no mention of it till you go up to the 1984 model year)...
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#21
by
rabbitman
on 23 Dec, 2011 18:56
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alldata also says this: "Ensure "stretch'' type connecting rod bolts are used. Bolts are not reusable, and must be replaced during assembly. During installation, tighten nuts to specified value, then turn each nut an additional 1/2 turn to obtain proper stretch." My bentley says +1/4 turn....
What would happen if the rod was out of round? Would it bind on the crank journal?
The cheapest I can find on ebay is $101 shipped.
It is a budget rebuild but I don't like to cut corners that could cause a catastrophe later.
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#22
by
maxfax
on 23 Dec, 2011 20:24
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Yeah, I'm learning that alldata is not too consistent.. I just checked my latest version and it does mention replacing the rod bolts on pre '84 models, IF you check the TSBs..
Yes it would bind, after my machinist pointed it out, I would imagine it would bind quite noticeably.. The best way to describe what happens, imagine driving a punch though the hole for the rod bolt and stretching it larger.. Now think about what the metal on the outside would do in that situation.. It basically creates a bump right in the middle of the bearing surface where the 2 halves would meet..
Again, I only ever had this happen on one set, which happened to be the latest set I installed them in.. I'm still glad I had all others in the past checked though..
I'm not finding any better prices on the studs myself.. Now that I go back and look at my receipts to see who I bought from I realize that the last set I bought was almost 5 years ago...
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#23
by
rabbitman
on 29 Dec, 2011 20:09
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So today in preparation for my parts to arrive I pulled the head and pistons. The rod bearings are in bad shape, #3 is the worst one with a little copper showing.
Is it possible to tell if these are stretch bolts by the picture?
Some scuff marks on the front of the piston above and below the rings, this is the worst one.
JP code block already has flat spots for piston squirters.....
Them bearings have me worried, I know the oil pressure isn't spectacularly high. I blame the worn lifter bores, I can wobble the lifters and get very visible movement.
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#24
by
rabbitman
on 30 Dec, 2011 12:35
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So I got the parts today, new rod bearings and all. I'm not sure if they sent the right ones though, the new ones have oil holes while the old ones do not. Will it hurt anything to use the bearings with oil holes? There's no matching holes in the rod of course since the oil comes from the crank journal.
Part # of new bearings is 034 198 501 BR
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#25
by
theman53
on 30 Dec, 2011 13:29
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That is supposed to be an upgraded rod bearing. I used it in my build and they were just fine. The autohaus az says they are upgraded on there site page and are fine to use as well.
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#26
by
rabbitman
on 30 Dec, 2011 13:49
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That is supposed to be an upgraded rod bearing. I used it in my build and they were just fine. The autohaus az says they are upgraded on there site page and are fine to use as well.
Thanks, I was thinkin' I'd have to wait another week to get it together.
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#27
by
belchfire
on 31 Dec, 2011 12:27
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Some rods have an oil pasage for the wrist pin and thus the need for the hole. (Don't know if any V-Dub does) It won't hurt if it's there. I had ticky lifters from day one (used engine) and replacing them made a world of difference. Not that expensive either. Oil pressure is still crap even with a new pump. I've heard that the hydraulic engines are famous for this. I disconnected the gauge and rely on the idiot light. Ignorance is bliss.
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#28
by
rabbitman
on 02 Jan, 2012 22:15
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So it runs again. I didn't run it much just enough to know that it runs weird still, clacks like crazy yet misses as if the timing was retarded.
I'll mess with it more in a few days...........
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#29
by
rabbitman
on 03 Jan, 2012 20:29
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Set timing to .95mm and internal pressure to 38ish psi at 1000 rpm. Ran it a bit and it seems ok. With it slightly warm to the touch I glowed the plugs for about 10 seconds (longer than the light called for) and fired right up with no cold start or go pedal!!!!! Slight miss so I pulled the cold start and it got better.
I don't want to idle it much with the new rings but at the same time I want it to run good when I go out to drive it. It's pushing -33F right now so I don't think I'll take it anywhere until it warms up out, if I go anywhere I'll have to either let it idle or plug it in to avoid letting it freeze up. Idling it long term isn't an option until it's broken in.